Cluetrain at 20 • Hacker News Board

Re: Cluetrain at 20

#31

Post by optimuspaul » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

goodmachine wrote: post #2

Oh, to be young again and believe in palpable nonsense like this: "markets are conversations" or "hyperlinks subvert hierarchy" or "we are immune to advertising" etc. Happy days.

I have always felt that "markets are conversations" is why social media became what it is now. Markets are still conversations, we are having them out in the open. I also honestly believe that the ideas in cluetrain were taken to heart and perverted into the landscape we see now. I think that they are still relevant but need to be considered for a new generation of people.

Re: Cluetrain at 20

#32

Post by kickscondor » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

api wrote: post #15

Mizza wrote: post #12

There was a scene of very well-meaning academics and young people in Cambridge around the Free Software/Free Culture movement and the Berkman Center in the early/mid/late 00's. There was a lot of idealism and a belief that digital interconnectedness was going to change the world for good. At the time, it was really fun and inspiring to be a part of. I realize now that the leaders/notables of the movement were, for th…

We tend to overestimate the impact of technologies in the short term and underestimate them in the long term. The Internet visionaries overestimated how rapidly the Internet would change the status quo. Instead the status quo came and colonized the Internet. The night is young though, and we have generations coming up right now that don't know what one-way broadcast media even is. The printing press took a long time…

Somewhat agree. I've been getting back into blogs and personal websites - some of this is categorized under 'indieweb'. There is a lot of good work being done out there, great conversations going on, strange and wonderful new hobbyists.

But I don't know if the Web - or the digital rights movement or Occupy or meme culture or whatever your personal fancy is - will ever be retaken. There's space for an underground now - which is good enough for me. Perhaps better than trying to fit all of mainstream society in. And maybe social networks can stay - as a kind of fly paper.

Re: Cluetrain at 20

#33

Post by njharman » Fri, Mar 29, 2019, 5:14 AM UTC

Mizza wrote: post #19

api wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We tend to overestimate the impact of technologies in the short term and underestimate them in the long term. The Internet visionaries overestimated how rapidly the Internet would change the status quo. Instead the status quo came and colonized the Internet. The night is young though, and we have generations coming up right now that don't know what one-way broadcast media even is. The printing press took a long time…

I'd like to think that, but I don't. I haven't seen any evidence for any meaningful resistance. I think it's very possible that the internet will just continue to get worse and worse and worse. It's already worse than television ever was. The only real resistance I can think is Tor, but it turns out that the cost of being able to buy psychedelics online is global child rape gangs and a nationwide Fentanyl problem. No…

> It's already worse than television ever was.

You have a myopic view of the internet. I don't use any social media. Unless you consider hn or Reddit that. And I run ad blocker. I spend most of my entertainment, educational, and social interaction budget on the internet. The internet is ducking amazing. I could never publish on tv. I could never consume what normal people published, unfiltered by FCC /network execs/advertisers.

The internet is not social media. Social media is "the masses", the mainstream. And regardless of platform those always suck, banal, lowest common denominator, and manipulated for profit or power.

Checkout of the mainstream, not the internet.