Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every single ER will charge every insurance company/plan differently, so that list would be pretty unreliable.
that is the whole point of publishing prices. with it implicitly you have to adjust your billing to be able to charge predictably for a service such as MRI etc. and if you dont you dont survive in long run as people gravitate towards the providers that give them clarity. why should be hospitals be the only ones allowed to do this highly anticompetitive practice?
The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
71–80 of 202 posts
Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
My wife fainted at a Shake Shack in NYC on the UWS. The 5 hour hospital stay with medicine, a regular check in from a nurse, and fluids cost less than $500. The The ambulance game is the real racket.
Should have taken Uber/Lyft. A lot of folks are now using them to go to Emergency. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolineodonovan/taking...
Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We already have tried to manage software development like an assembly line. That didn't work for software What makes you say that? Assemblies like: - product owner writes detailed user stories from communications with client - developers pick them, implement them, and put them up for review - CI server runs automated tests - reviewers check the code for maintainability issues - QA folks check the feature from the p…
The usually the part that fails is this: "- developers pick them, implement them, and put them up for review" In quite a few cases it turns out that it's not so easy to implement what you thought first because there is a bug in some system you are using or some other component needs to be changed too and suddenly the whole plan falls apart. There is no amount of planning you can do to avoid this. Unexpected things co…
I was a mechanical engineer at an automobile company before moving to software. The two are actually quite similar.
It is common to run into implementation issues when going from concept to production.
The big difference is, being a mature branch in an area where safety is vital, the rigor, scrutiny and time alloted to each step are significantly greater than software.
The similarity is especially pronounced on enterprise software products that have long intervals between releases.
A lot of unexpected things happen with cars that go into production all the time. Thankfully cars have a lot of redundancy required by safety. So, small problems can often be glossed over.
Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
#74This article is really informative, and makes me feel proud to be an Indian. Medical care really is one of those things that no person should have to beg or borrow for, in a civil society. We're still not there yet as a country, but the signs are positive. FWIW, I'm relatively well off and have medical insurance, but the cost is absolutely negligible compared to what I hear is prevalent in the US - about $10 / month.…
A friend of mine is a nurse who did social work in rural India. What she told me about the local hospitals was horrifying, not just the condition of the hospital and how patients with infectious diseases were sleeping on the corridors because of lack of beds, but how the doctors had a total disinterest (bordering on contempt) of the uneducated woman who she went to appointments with.
Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
#75He succesfully performed a complicated surgery for $10K that would cost $200K in the US. And India still can't afford to pay those prices. The problem is obviously not that THIS guy is not working efficiently. It's that the distribution of wealth under our planetary economic system is deeply unfair.
It's kind of a relative quantity though, so the numbers might not necessarily be as comparable. The value of a dollar in India might be much higher. $1 is almost 70 indian rupees, and the distribution of rupees might be slightly more equitable among the population of India.
Here health care is destroying us too, but _most_ (not all) people who need heart surgery still get it. Sometimes it destroys them financially (not saying health care works here either), but they get the surgery. And our economy does not crash. So far. India literally can't afford to give them the surgery.
Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
#76This was shocking to read: > The data appear to back Shetty up. In part because its huge volumes help surgeons quickly develop proficiency, the chain’s mortality rates are comparable to or lower than those in the developed world, at least for some procedures. About 1.4 percent of Narayana patients die within 30 days following a heart bypass, according to the Commonwealth Fund, which studies public health, compared wi…
Then again, repetition helps. People who do more procedures generally get better results. In colonoscopies, studies show that the fastest doctors also have the lowest false positive/negative rates, because the way you get fast and the way you get good is to do it again and again.
Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's kind of a relative quantity though, so the numbers might not necessarily be as comparable. The value of a dollar in India might be much higher. $1 is almost 70 indian rupees, and the distribution of rupees might be slightly more equitable among the population of India.
True, but it's the distribution of wealth _between_ the U.S. and India that I'm thinking of. They can't afford to give most of their population needed heart surgery even when they've made it 100x cheaper than it is here. Here health care is destroying us too, but _most_ (not all) people who need heart surgery still get it. Sometimes it destroys them financially (not saying health care works here either), but they get…
This is what's hard to conceptually grasp about nationalized healthcare. The concept of "a nation can't afford" does not make sense because a nation-state with control of its own currency can simply create and allocate the currency to serve this purpose.
I'm not sure why this is not on the table.
Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
The usually the part that fails is this: "- developers pick them, implement them, and put them up for review" In quite a few cases it turns out that it's not so easy to implement what you thought first because there is a bug in some system you are using or some other component needs to be changed too and suddenly the whole plan falls apart. There is no amount of planning you can do to avoid this. Unexpected things co…
I think I am uniquely positioned to refute your claims. I was a mechanical engineer at an automobile company before moving to software. The two are actually quite similar. It is common to run into implementation issues when going from concept to production. The big difference is, being a mature branch in an area where safety is vital, the rigor, scrutiny and time alloted to each step are significantly greater than so…
Me too :-)
Yes, things happen when you get something in production but at some time you reach a fairly stable state and things are predictable and easy to measure and quantify. With medical procedures you often encounter surprises.
I agree there is something to learned but it would be terribly arrogant to say "We have figured it out for cars and therefore we have figured out medical care and software development"
Re: The World’s Cheapest Hospital Has to Get Even Cheaper
#79>“Everyone does as much as they can,” Ashwinikumar Kudari, a senior gastrointestinal surgeon, says toward the end of a busy day at the Bangalore hospital. He’s just removed two malignant tumors the size of golf balls from a middle-aged woman’s intestines—the seventh surgery he’s performed or supervised since morning. A compact man with a trim mustache and a wry smile, Kudari is soon on the move again, checking in briefly on a gallstone removal next door before dashing up a spiral staircase to another operating theater. There, he takes over from a colleague who’s struggling to locate a particularly tricky fistula. “Our margins are low on one surgery, but because we do so many in a day, we can make enough,” he remarks after the elusive fistula—the longest he’s ever seen—is found, running from the man’s anus to above his groin. By working at this pace, the average Narayana surgeon performs as many as six times more procedures annually than an American counterpart.
I'm wondering how overworked doctors are in these conditions, or how long a senior doctor lasts in a hospital like this. It might be a good place to gain experience, but how feasible it is to work there for 10 years?
>It’s all a far cry from the high-touch treatment Westerners expect, but Shetty is adamant that none of the practices compromise safety. Sterilizing and reusing clamps and tubing is permitted under the standards of the Joint Commission, a U.S.-based body that vets and accredits hospitals worldwide, including Narayana’s cardiac hub. Involving properly instructed family members in the simplest care tasks isn’t unheard of in Europe and North America, and some studies suggest it may improve patients’ prospects. (Unlike busy nurses, relatives have just one person to focus on.)
I growing up in the soviet block I remember family members taking care of relatives in the hospital, and I never really questioned this at that time. Now looking at the western medical system, it seems like nurses are doing work that there not supposed to be doing and there aren't enough of them all the time.
> Yet even for bypasses—Narayana’s bread-and-butter procedure, with greater economies of scale than any other—Shetty needs to cut costs further, because Modicare will reimburse only about $1,300 for each surgery. For other treatments, the difference between current price tags and Modicare payment schedules is much wider. “They are paying less than what it costs,” Shetty says.
It seems that politicians have established a system that covers everyone. Not always effective, that underpays a lot, but it's there, now as society gradually accepts that the system is their and it is fair, it may be possible to expand in in the next 5-10 years either with the amount of coverage it provides or with the amount of money it pays per procedure.