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Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

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Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#41

Post by Dylan16807 »

sorenn111 wrote: post #28
simion314 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I assume there may be at least 2 distinct issues: 1 preventing people to repair their hardware with software locks, not selling parts, not providing documentation, copyrighting schematics, repairs manuals and doing all you can to not allow third parties to fix hardware. 2 building thins that are impossible or hard to repair because you don't care about the fact that for a broken key you have to replace half the la…

I disagree with some of your sub points from point 1. Selling parts, providing documentation, and building repair manuals are forcing behaviors form companies. Compelling them to do provide a service or product that they would not otherwise provide. Legislation that prevents certain actions is great, but I'm wary of any compulsion from governments to companies and individuals. If you want to take stuff apart, Go for…

How do you feel about mandatory warranty periods? I see the requirement of repair manuals for a mass-produced product as a very similar thing, and both are justified as part of ensuring a fair bargain where you get what you paid for, not a device that randomly fails and wastes all the money you put into it.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#42

Post by noir_lord »

smacktoward wrote: post #35
beamatronic wrote: post #30

I was recently upgrading a 2008 MacBook. Upgraded the hard drive and the memory. It was so easy. It is an absolute joy to service this machine. It also has many useful ports and an awesome battery indicator on the side.

I'm old enough to remember the days of the "cheese grater" Power Mac/Mac Pro, when Apple would explicitly call attention to how expandable and user-serviceable a case they'd designed for it. How times change!

I still think that the "cheese grater" was the pinnacle of apple desktop design (and I've never owned a mac), I just love it - enough that I damn near bought a broken one to use to build my new PC in the end laziness won and I went corsair but it's still an amazing piece of industrial design.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#43

Post by saagarjha »

cydonian_monk wrote: post #32
beamatronic wrote: post #30

I was recently upgrading a 2008 MacBook. Upgraded the hard drive and the memory. It was so easy. It is an absolute joy to service this machine. It also has many useful ports and an awesome battery indicator on the side.

I feel the same about my 2012 MacBookPro. While it was a _tiny_ bit down the path of "not user serviceable", replacing the battery and trackpad was extremely easy. And one of the first things I did to it was replace/upgrade Apple's RAM and drop an SSD into the optical bay.

It’s important to note that this was the case even despite the fact that the battery and trackpad were not considered “user replaceable”.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#44

Post by abalone »

Zarath wrote: post #11
duado wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making something that’s easy to take apart often makes it bigger, because interfaces need to be modularized. I’ve never needed to open one of my iPhones and would not want them 1mm thicker to be repairable.

Maybe you've never needed to open your iphone because it would serve no purpose. If I could upgrade my old iphone by taking it apart, I wouldn't have bought a new one in the first place...

You don’t have to buy a new iPhone to replace the battery, so presumably you’re imagining upgrading the processors, camera, sensors or some other aspect of the iPhone. Those components are so tightly integrated and custom fitted in each iteration of the device that it is technically impossible to “upgrade” them independently.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#45

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

simion314 wrote: post #15
kevinherron wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > I don't believe manufacturers should have to build things to be easy to take apart, to be replaceable or upgradeable, or anything else along those lines. > Why not? Because, 1) I personally don't care about this. 2) More important than 1, I don't think the law/government has any business deciding this. The market can decide (spoiler: it already has).

Did the free markets ended slavery in US or under-age working? I remember many good things had to be forced with laws and not let to be decided by the big companies.

> Did the free markets ended slavery in US

In a very oblique manner it did. Industrialization (which was very much a product of free markets) of the Northern States made the economics of slavery untenable in the North. Once people were not as blinded by profits, they could actually see that slavery was a moral evil. In the South, the economics were very different and therefore a lot of rationalizations were formed as to why slavery was not that evil.

In addition, Industrialization enabled larger population growth in the North as well as larger production. This is what gave the Union the advantage in manpower and material that allowed the North to win the Civil War.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#46

Post by monocasa »

xoa wrote: post #16

I really dislike the "Right to Repair" movement because I see it as a lobbyist (iFixit pushes it heavily for example since they make money off it) & niche driven push that is both wasting a real chance to get at some actual critical problems and generating new ones of its own. The two big issues are reasonable life span as part of the purchase price, and questions about ownership vs security. 1. For the first, most p…

You can absolutely have a cryptographically secure hardware chain that you can replace parts on. Just require that root keys get wiped on a part swap.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#47

Post by andromeduck »

monocasa wrote: post #46
xoa wrote: post #16

I really dislike the "Right to Repair" movement because I see it as a lobbyist (iFixit pushes it heavily for example since they make money off it) & niche driven push that is both wasting a real chance to get at some actual critical problems and generating new ones of its own. The two big issues are reasonable life span as part of the purchase price, and questions about ownership vs security. 1. For the first, most p…

You can absolutely have a cryptographically secure hardware chain that you can replace parts on. Just require that root keys get wiped on a part swap.

If you trust the hardware.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#48

Post by wlesieutre »

beamatronic wrote: post #30

I was recently upgrading a 2008 MacBook. Upgraded the hard drive and the memory. It was so easy. It is an absolute joy to service this machine. It also has many useful ports and an awesome battery indicator on the side.

I remember in the old iBooks back when WiFi was a new thing you could order without it and install your own card later in about 15 seconds.

There were little sprung pull tabs between some of the function keys, pull them back, lift the keyboard out, AirPort card slot was right there. RAM slots too.

And the removable keyboard, gosh! Those keyboards didn’t just shit the bed if a piece of dust got in them, but even if they had it was a separate part that you could swap out without replacing half the computer. Good times.

I have a 2016 MBP now. Betting the resale value when the 4-year keyboard warranty runs out is going to be about what the rest of the computer is worth for spare parts.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#49

Post by kllrnohj »

xoa wrote: post #16

I really dislike the "Right to Repair" movement because I see it as a lobbyist (iFixit pushes it heavily for example since they make money off it) & niche driven push that is both wasting a real chance to get at some actual critical problems and generating new ones of its own. The two big issues are reasonable life span as part of the purchase price, and questions about ownership vs security. 1. For the first, most p…

You seem to be ignoring that some manufacturers, like Apple, will straight up refuse to do repairs or sell replacement parts in some cases.

One such iconic example was Linus Tech Tip's Mac Pro. They know they broke it and tried to pay for repairs, but Apple straight up refused to repair it, saying instead they needed to buy a new one.

Similarly Apple refuses to do repairs or charge extreme amounts once a Macbook is "too old", even if it's otherwise perfectly serviceable. And they are increasingly engineering it in such a way as to specifically prevent other companies from doing the repairs that they won't.

The point of right to repair is that it acknowledges that the economic interests of a manufacturer are to sell you a replacement, not to repair/service a machine. Rather than try and force them to not maximize profits, the legislation is to let others compete in the repair business space. Similar to automotive repair.

Re: Internal Documents Show Apple Is Capable of Implementing Right to Repair

#50

Post by saagarjha »

monocasa wrote: post #46
xoa wrote: post #16

I really dislike the "Right to Repair" movement because I see it as a lobbyist (iFixit pushes it heavily for example since they make money off it) & niche driven push that is both wasting a real chance to get at some actual critical problems and generating new ones of its own. The two big issues are reasonable life span as part of the purchase price, and questions about ownership vs security. 1. For the first, most p…

You can absolutely have a cryptographically secure hardware chain that you can replace parts on. Just require that root keys get wiped on a part swap.

Ok, but you now have an iPhone that can leak your fingerprint or face data, or make it easy to pull credit card information off of. When that happens, will consumers (and the media!) blame Apple for making an insecure phone or the repair store for using untrusted hardware?
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