EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#111

Post by Pfhreak » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

smileypete wrote: post #101

Pfhreak wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if .5% is the biggest single chunk of plastic use you can eliminate in your sphere of influence? Should you: a) Do nothing, because it's "only" 0.5% b) Eliminate 0.5% because it's something you can do. > It's just virtue signaling and the so-called 'solutions' lower our comfort Oh, right, I see. Yeah, I mean you'll be comfortable for the next thirty years. Who cares about the next generation, am I right?

There's a huge problem with unsorted or poor quality recyling or waste electronics being illegally exported from first world countries [1] and ending up in landfills or just dumped in piles, across the world, fix that first, then move on to something else. Banning tiny amount of single use plastic is low hanging but infinitesimally small fruit however, and the narratives created around it just conveniently distract f…

Why present it as an either or? Why fix one first? Do both.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#112

Post by organsnyder » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #105

saluki wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see them some in the US, there are also some that are that are made from corn. They feel/flex like plastic but are biodegradable.

The ones that look and feel like plastic are essentially plastic. The conditions it takes to get them to break down don't happen in a landfill.

You don't want things to break down in a landfill. They do decompose in industrial composting facilities, though, which are becoming more accessible (we just signed up for a service that costs $5/week for a decent-sized bin).

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#113

Post by organsnyder » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

fileeditview wrote: post #106

Brakenshire wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because there is a health implication there, the possibility that people could get dehydrated and not have easy access to bottled water.

I remember a time when (almost) all bottled water was in glass bottles.. didn't seem to be a problem back then and everyone seemed hydrated. I also remember when the plastic bottles were hyped because they were so much easier to carry.. not sure it was worth it.

Glass is often harder to recycle than plastic. Our county's single-stream facility recycles glass into construction fill.

We really need to get back to reusing bottles rather than trying to recycle them.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#114

Post by vbuwivbiu » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:59 PM UTC

for the economics experts: how could the market eliminate this problem by itself ?

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#115

Post by plopz » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #98

normalperson wrote: post #53

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

> 90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia You might find this reddit comment interesting, because it debunks this statistic. https://www.reddit.com/r/badscience/comments/aj0idr/debunkin... Plastic in the ocean comes from roughly 3 sources: industrial equipment, microfibres from clothing, and land-based waste carried into the sea by rivers. The 90% figure only applies to this last one.

This says that by weight, only 8% of the pacific garbage patch is microplastics and that the majority is fishing gear with fishing nets accounting for 46%.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#116

Post by philipkglass » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:02 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #105

saluki wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see them some in the US, there are also some that are that are made from corn. They feel/flex like plastic but are biodegradable.

The ones that look and feel like plastic are essentially plastic. The conditions it takes to get them to break down don't happen in a landfill.

Wood doesn't break down under landfill conditions either, at least not on human time scales.

But wooden objects do biodegrade within human time scales if just left in a meadow. The same is true of polylactic acid objects. Neither wooden nor PLA objects break down in a home composting system like orange peels do, but both biodegrade much faster than e.g. polystyrene.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#117

Post by Agustus » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

boudin wrote: post #70

normalperson wrote: post #53

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

It is still better than doing nothing. It also will promote materials that are a better fit for recycling.

In the case of banning plastic bags, certain areas have seen an uptick in feces in areas because the homeless were using the bags for defecation and sanitation. The ban he had an impact, detrimental to the point where a first world nation is on track to have preventable disease outbreaks. There are cost benefit analyses that should be done prior to saying that a ban is better than nothing.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#118

Post by ddebernardy » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:05 PM UTC

Brakenshire wrote: post #27

progfix wrote: post #20

Why no plastic bottles as well? The vast majority of plastic I use is from bottles.

Probably because there is a health implication there, the possibility that people could get dehydrated and not have easy access to bottled water.

Once upon a time, cities offered potable water every here and there. The problem is that as these watering holes become rarer and rarer, locals sometimes push for the remaining ones to get shut down citing nuisances [0].

[0]: https://www.liberation.fr/direct/element/a-nice-une-fontaine... (French)

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#119

Post by habnds » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:06 PM UTC

vbuwivbiu wrote: post #114

for the economics experts: how could the market eliminate this problem by itself ?

It's a market failure that they're trying to correct. Externalities aren't fixed by markets because they're external to those markets.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#120

Post by jwr » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 7:07 PM UTC

Reading these comments makes me sad, but I am also beginning to understand the opposition to limiting carbon emissions.

Introduce an initiative that is "obviously good". I mean, none of the commenters here will be disadvantaged by single-use plastic being banned. It is obviously better for the environment. Whichever way you look at it, it is an improvement on the current state of affairs. And yet, people will moan and complain, criticize, pull out "statistics" out of thin air, say that this "does not solve the real problem", that it isn't important. And this is the enlightened HN community, the epitome of progressiveness.

This is similar to the climate change discussions. Moving away from fossil fuels is obviously better for the environment and for us. And yet, people will moan and complain, criticize, point fingers, say that it's the other guys who pollute, or say that this particular change "doesn't matter", because there are bigger polluters out there.

I am very glad the EU is making this move and I'm happy there are still some places in the world who can effect change. I wish the EU was similarly radical with respect to its beloved car industry, or with moving towards nuclear power (not away from it), but one can hope.