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EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

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81–90 of 192 posts

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#81

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

First, comments like yours is how nothing ever gets done.

Second, you use citation-free statistics that are misleading. How much plastic waste from Asia is from "recycled" US and European ("first world", to use your dog whistle) plastics?

edit: to repeat myself, How much plastic waste from Asia is from "recycled" US and European ("first world", to use your dog whistle) plastics? - the research that 90% of the plastic waste in the oceans comes from 10 rivers is such common knowledge that the NY Post is one of the top hits if you search for this. Plastic from those rivers comes from ostensibly "recycled" western plastics, so this is actually very meaningful policy from the EU.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you're on the go? Eating as a passenger in a car, etc.

I can fathom having a portable case for a set of silverware, that you clean when you get home.

In the future we'll just walk around with silverware and a cup at all times.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#83
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I already addressed why soup kitchens are a worse alternative than fast food in my experience. I can't believe you are rebutting any of my points with "We can just have more soup kitchens!" Some homeless people are living in their car, attending school or have a job, etc. It is not uncommon for homeless people to be actively trying to fit in and not be noticed as homeless. Most people did not think I was homeless upo…

You got a point but I think there are solutions to be found. Have a significant surcharge for disposable, then if people present their WIC/SNAP they get a waiver at checkout.

A lot of homeless people do not have WIC/SNAP. Plus, you just agreed that all homeless people need to be registered in some way to qualify.

That's how they currently handle the bag ban: People with SNAP can get free bags. I had lost my food stamps due to bureaucratic error by the time the ban was instituted. I tried to reapply and someone dropped the ball again. Meanwhile, the process of applying was such a hardship that I decided to not bother to try again.

I probably still qualify for food stamps and still don't have them.

There are lots of people who fall through the cracks for various reasons. I also don't qualify for disability. Simply having a genetic disorder does not automatically qualify you for disability. You have to prove you are impaired to a certain degree.

I can't prove that. I'm too good at taking care of myself, though it takes all my time and requires substantial accommodation, a thing that absolutely does not result in the world going "Awwww. She totes should get a break of some kind. Let's cut the poor girl some slack and give her an exception/do a fundraiser/ support her goddamned Patreon."

No, it's fuck me all the way down. And I'm hardly some rare exception. That seems to be par for the course for homeless people.

Anyway, the reality is that privileged people tend to get exceptions to all the rules because they are the right color, the right gender, have enough money, etc. You will notice that the bag ban in no way impedes rich people from having all the bags they want. They just need to pay 10 cents apiece, which isn't remotely a hardship for them. There is no cap on how many they can use (for example).

Similarly, during water rationing during the drought in California, I saw articles that indicated that very rich people, like Oprah Winfrey, simply trucked in however much water they wanted for their swimming pools, landscaping and what not.

It's always the poor people who are hurt the most by all such rules. Other people have myriad ways they can get around them, usually without being stigmatized, penalized, prosecuted, etc.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#84

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

Banning those items, presumably, will create incentives to find alternatives.

If we are lucky, some ecologic friendly alternative that makes economic sense will appear and will extend outside the EU. If we are very lucky, that hypothetical alternative could be extended to other uses of plastics.

The real problem is that plastics are just too convenient. We are just too comfortable to change anything. Applying evolutionary pressure to the economy could generate better solutions.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#85

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

If we do not start it first, who will? Look for example at Eastern Europe where no sorting was just few years ago and today it works, and it's much cleaner. Same will happen in other societies.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#86

90% of the plastic in the ocean comes from Africa and Asia. First world countries put their garbage, generally speaking, into garbage dumps. This EU rule will do nothing.

First, comments like yours is how nothing ever gets done. Second, you use citation-free statistics that are misleading. How much plastic waste from Asia is from "recycled" US and European ("first world", to use your dog whistle) plastics? edit: to repeat myself, How much plastic waste from Asia is from "recycled" US and European ("first world", to use your dog whistle) plastics? - the research that 90% of the plastic…

Here is the paper the statistic is based on.

https://twin.sci-hub.tw/7148/507066f35e75c25d1b1e160ada5693c...

ABSTRACT: A substantial fraction of marine plastic debris originates from land-based sources and rivers potentially act as a major transport pathway for all sizes of plastic debris. We analyzed a global compilation of data on plastic debris in the water column across a wide range of river sizes. Plastic debris loads, both microplastic (particles 5 mm) are positively related to the mismanaged plastic waste (MMPW) generated in the river catchments. This relationship is nonlinear where large rivers with population-rich catchments delivering a disproportionately higher fraction of MMPW into the sea. The 10 top-ranked rivers transport 88−95% of the global load into the sea. Using MMPW as a predictor we calculate the global plastic debris inputs form rivers into the sea to range between 0.41 and 4 × 106 t/y. Due to the limited amount of data high uncertainties were expected and ultimately confirmed. The empirical analysis to quantify plastic loads in rivers can be extended easily by additional potential predictors other than MMPW, for example, hydrological conditions.

It’s worth pointing out that this is a single study, and I’m unsure of the accuracy of their methods of inference and sampling. The link to a previous comment in this thread implies that it’s incorrect, so keep that in mind as well.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#87
post #20

Why no plastic bottles as well? The vast majority of plastic I use is from bottles.

Coke and Pepsi would sooner nuke the EU then allow for plastic bottles to be eliminated.

I'm sure between the two of them they produce most of the plastic waste in the world but I'm glad governments are attacking low hanging fruit instead.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And wooden single-use cutlery is pretty common already today.

Really? I've never seen it in the US, except in the form of wooden coffee stirrers.

Chinese or most East Asian food restaurants have wooden single-use chopsticks

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can fathom having a portable case for a set of silverware, that you clean when you get home.

In the future we'll just walk around with silverware and a cup at all times.

Actually you might be onto a new market, creating forks that you bring with you everywhere like a pocket knife.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can fathom having a portable case for a set of silverware, that you clean when you get home.

In the future we'll just walk around with silverware and a cup at all times.

I mean, as long as so many of us are driving our own cars everywhere anyways, it's not like we don't have a place to put it...
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