Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries • Hacker News Board

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#41

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

darksaints wrote: post #28

I'm not surprised in the least. The industry is full of stories that started out as rumors but have ended up proven as true about the lengths they will go for more or better information. I've heard an apocryphal story that I'm still waiting for truth on. It was of a soybean prop trading firm quant who reverse engineered a cross-town rival's trading strategy, allowing them to front run their strategy. The way that the…

I heard that story from a quant friend. However, the way I heard the story, the targeted firm found out about their rival's attempt to game their strategy, and faked a bunch of activity. The rival's algorithm acted on the activity and placed a large market order...in the wrong direction.

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#42

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

ComodoHacker wrote: post #38

'Humans as sensors' could be the next tech "big thing". And 'human body as power source for gadgets' will follow. We are closer to The Matrix with each year passed.

How are you sure we aren't already in The Matrix?

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#43

Post by AznHisoka » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

And the next step in this race will be oil refineries buying a bunch of put options, then intentionally getting a bunch of strangers with smartphones into their refineries to trick hedge funds that there is something wrong, then watching those put options skyrocket. Would that be insider trading?

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#44

Post by darkpuma » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

_2d30 wrote: post #36

maxerickson wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smoking a cigarette has its downsides no matter how flammable the greater surrounding environment happens to be.

So in your world, if you’re willing to be X amount self-destructive or accept X risk, you’re also willing to accept X + Y risk or self destruction regardless of how large Y is. Got it.

It's pretty typical addict behavior. Next time you go to a gas station, look at the ground. Unless they sweep regularly, the ground next to the pumps will have a great deal of cigarette butts on it.

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#45

Post by lolc » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

Soooo

1. Generate fake phone profiles of a made-up disaster crew

2. Wait for minor disaster at random refinery

3. Feed trackers with location data showing your fake crew moving into that refinery

4. Repeat 2, 3 to associate your profiles with disaster

5. Short some fine $refinery stock

6. Move your crew to $refinery

7. Profit

I wonder whether this has already been pulled off :-)

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#46

Post by sevensor » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #23

sevensor wrote: post #15

I've heard from a friend who used to work in Houston refineries, that it's not unusual for refinery workers (who do carry mobile phones, by the way) to call their brokers immediately when they hear an explosion or see an unexpected plume of smoke from a neighboring refinery. Also smoking on the job is apparently much more common at refineries than I would have expected. Edit: this comment reflects the state of the in…

Of course people smoke where it doesn't make much sense. I mean, think about it for a second.

My friend's explanation was that if the really flammable stuff gets out, it's already going to be on fire anyway. He described a technician tossing his cigar butt in a puddle of diesel fuel to make the point. The fuel didn't catch fire.

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#47

Post by darkpuma » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #15

I've heard from a friend who used to work in Houston refineries, that it's not unusual for refinery workers (who do carry mobile phones, by the way) to call their brokers immediately when they hear an explosion or see an unexpected plume of smoke from a neighboring refinery. Also smoking on the job is apparently much more common at refineries than I would have expected. Edit: this comment reflects the state of the in…

I once read an argument (maybe here on HN, I'm not sure) that if insider trading were legal, Enron wouldn't have taken anybody by surprise. I'm not sure I buy the argument that it should consequently be legal, but it's an interesting idea.

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#48

Post by darkpuma » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #46

maxerickson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course people smoke where it doesn't make much sense. I mean, think about it for a second.

My friend's explanation was that if the really flammable stuff gets out, it's already going to be on fire anyway. He described a technician tossing his cigar butt in a puddle of diesel fuel to make the point. The fuel didn't catch fire.

Diesel isn't particularly volatile, it's difficult to ignite even with an open flame. Nothing like gasoline/petrol (which also would probably pass his cigar butt test, but vapors from which could certainly ignite from the match he used to light his cigar.)

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#49

Post by a3n » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

blantonl wrote: post #4

How are they gathering this data? Are they placing detection equipment at/near the target locations to monitor for cell phone signatures in the vicinity, or are they gathering from mobile apps who resell location data to aggregation firms?

The article mentioned apps. Are your apps only doing what you think they do?

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#50

Post by maxerickson » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #23

sevensor wrote: post #15

I've heard from a friend who used to work in Houston refineries, that it's not unusual for refinery workers (who do carry mobile phones, by the way) to call their brokers immediately when they hear an explosion or see an unexpected plume of smoke from a neighboring refinery. Also smoking on the job is apparently much more common at refineries than I would have expected. Edit: this comment reflects the state of the in…

Of course people smoke where it doesn't make much sense. I mean, think about it for a second.

ITT, people love their nic-o-tine.