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Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

bloomberg.com

21–30 of 145 posts

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#21
post #4

How are they gathering this data? Are they placing detection equipment at/near the target locations to monitor for cell phone signatures in the vicinity, or are they gathering from mobile apps who resell location data to aggregation firms?

Google “Thasos Group”. They are one of the big providers

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#22
post #4

How are they gathering this data? Are they placing detection equipment at/near the target locations to monitor for cell phone signatures in the vicinity, or are they gathering from mobile apps who resell location data to aggregation firms?

Yea that wasn't clear. The article made it sound like they're aggregating data from various sources that collect location data (probably from those app metric providers like Tune and others). So if someone ran an open source phone with F-Droid or just installed zero apps with metrics (and Google isn't one of their sources), they wouldn't ever show up in this data set.

I'm guessing location data comes from the Apple/Google location APIs that can map peoples aprox locations based on their proximity to Wi-Fi points (I think they register Wi-Fi points and then the first GPS signal the phone gets after; like when someone walks outside, and use a set of those to get approximate triangulation for indoor Wi-Fi APs).

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#23

I've heard from a friend who used to work in Houston refineries, that it's not unusual for refinery workers (who do carry mobile phones, by the way) to call their brokers immediately when they hear an explosion or see an unexpected plume of smoke from a neighboring refinery. Also smoking on the job is apparently much more common at refineries than I would have expected. Edit: this comment reflects the state of the in…

Of course people smoke where it doesn't make much sense.

I mean, think about it for a second.

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#24
sounds like what they really need is an app with 6 choices, and subheading on when to use the choices

BUY OIL when explosion or war constricts the supply

SELL OIL when new resource is found increasing the supply

BUY OIL COMPANY when new resource is found increasing the supply AND when the company increases its ability to sell more oil at higher margins

SELL OIL COMPANY when explosion happens on company property

BUY OIL PRICE ETF when you want to go long oil but are too poor/risk averse for futures contract

SELL OIL PRICE ETF when you want to go short oil but are too poor/risk averse for futures contract

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#25

I wonder if there's companies who sell ELD info similar to other examples listed in here about carriers and apps selling user info. Having ELD info from truckers around refineries and drill sites would give you a pretty good insight as to what's going on.

ELD info?

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#26

I've heard from a friend who used to work in Houston refineries, that it's not unusual for refinery workers (who do carry mobile phones, by the way) to call their brokers immediately when they hear an explosion or see an unexpected plume of smoke from a neighboring refinery. Also smoking on the job is apparently much more common at refineries than I would have expected. Edit: this comment reflects the state of the in…

Of course people smoke where it doesn't make much sense. I mean, think about it for a second.

I thought about it and couldn't figure out why it's obvious. Care to share some light on that?

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#27
post #4

How are they gathering this data? Are they placing detection equipment at/near the target locations to monitor for cell phone signatures in the vicinity, or are they gathering from mobile apps who resell location data to aggregation firms?

"through vendors" (sloppy reporting, passive voice)

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#28
I'm not surprised in the least. The industry is full of stories that started out as rumors but have ended up proven as true about the lengths they will go for more or better information.

I've heard an apocryphal story that I'm still waiting for truth on. It was of a soybean prop trading firm quant who reverse engineered a cross-town rival's trading strategy, allowing them to front run their strategy. The way that they did it was taking a number from the firm's name, and using it as a random number seed, and then using that seed to find the randomized order sizes would result from their iceberg order algorithm. They would use those sizes to match to l2 passive limit order flow to try to identify activity coming from the firm. Once they discovered the direction the firm was going, they'd place a huge market order and suck up all of the liquidity that the competitor was trying to acquire passively, effectively moving the market before their competitor could fill their position.

Stuff like this still blows me away, but it's just crazy enough to be true.

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#29

I'm not surprised in the least. The industry is full of stories that started out as rumors but have ended up proven as true about the lengths they will go for more or better information. I've heard an apocryphal story that I'm still waiting for truth on. It was of a soybean prop trading firm quant who reverse engineered a cross-town rival's trading strategy, allowing them to front run their strategy. The way that the…

It's just like how HFTs can make massive amounts of money just by making transactions milliseconds faster than the people next door.

Stuff is insane

Re: Oil traders are watching workers’ phones to spot problems at refineries

#30
I've envisioned an application like the following for construction sites and industrial installations:

There would be a "supervisor" app with a schematic 3D model of the site, with dots or tags indicating the location of smartphones of workers, who have installed a satellite app.

There would be messaging between the satellite apps and the supervisor app, and a worker with a satellite app could stream video or post pictures to their tag, which could then be accessed from the supervisor app.

There could also be a VR/AR version of this. No video stream would take over the POV of the VR/AR users. Rather, the streams would be available as pop-up "screens" from the location tags on the schematic model.

For bonus points, interface this with CAD/CAM, so that not only the schematic model can be imported, but the design details can be accessed and drilled-down, and relayed to the workers on-site.

The purpose would be to provide answers and clarifications to workers very quickly, as well as providing contextual information localized in the 3D space of the design to supervisors, architects, and engineers.

Is there already something like this?

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