EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#21

Post by freedomben » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

seszett wrote: post #14

patrickaljord wrote: post #6

They're banning single use plastic only. Other plastic plates are not banned. Given how much it costs in Europe to rent square meters to store stuff I wonder if event companies won't just buy multiple-use plastic plates and just throw them away anyway as it's cheaper than to pay personal to clean them, transport them to containers and then rent the space to store them, secure them etc.

Why wouldn't they just switch to paper plates instead?

I try to use paper whenever possible for environmental reasons, and it's really only usable for dry foods. Some paper has a waxy coating that helps, but it's quite a bit more expensive and if you are doing any sort of cutting/poking the food, you still don't get a lot of time before you break through.

So tl;dr: paper is a worse user experience. Worth it IMHO but many people will certainly not agree.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#22

Post by krastanov » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #13

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even setting aside the inconvenience factor, that would become a hygiene problem very quickly. Disposability is extremely useful when cleaning isn't an immediate option.

With demand, ( *some) offices will install fridges and sinks to accommodate new behavior, no?

There is an edge case that is actually problematic: the one person that does not wash their multiple-use take-away container can be a source of contamination that hurts many more. This is something that buffet restaurants and school/university cafeterias actually have to deal with today. It is a minor problem (solvable with some discipline and maybe minor regulation), but it is still a problem.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#23

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

vimy wrote: post #15

GeneralMayhem wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this account for the trash that we send abroad for China to dispose of?

No, it does not and since China banned garbage imports last year we will see soon enough if the theory that China is dumping Western plastic in the ocean is correct. If that's the case, we should see a sharp decline in ocean plastics in the coming years.

Only if another country doesn't start doing it for us instead, or we do it ourselves. Though I think your general point holds, and hope the Chinese ban works to our advantage, forcing research into better ways of recycling and maybe even true single stream recycling, not the scam it often is.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#24

Post by dashundchen » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

vimy wrote: post #5

The western world is responsible for 1,25 % of all ocean plastic pollution. Europe is only 0,28 %![0] There is no need to ban single-use plastics in the West. It's just virtue signaling and the so-called 'solutions' lower our comfort, will cause a rise in food poisoning deaths and are worse for the environment.[1] When you mention this, people reply we should set an example and other countries will follow. The idea t…

Everyone who is against restrictions on single use loves to cite that article to rail against them, but never seems to actually have read or understood the study:

1. While many indicators suggest a dominant contribution of plastics from Asian countries, there is very little data to document these assumptions and thoroughly verify the validity of our model. [0]

2. The study was not talking about all sources of plastic in the ocean, it is referring to plastic concentration in major rivers.

3. A good chunk of "western" waste and recycling is exported to Asia for processing. Yes, it may be mishandled there but it doesn't originate from there. Reducing generation will also reduce contamination.

4. Plastic ends up in more places than just rivers feeding ocean. Plastics accumulate and degrade into microplastics, and end up in lakes, fields, forests, parks - yes, within Europe as well.

I'm also not sure why you even think Europe is a leader here. Many African and Asian countries have been taxing or banning single use plastic for years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_lightweight_plast...

Your reading of "virtue signaling" and colonialism seems to be your own construction. I would bet most of people lobbying for this are lobbying because they want to see less plastic ending up in the environment, locally and globally, not because they care what you think.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#25

Post by randyrand » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

Keep this up and the 2nd Brexit vote might never happen.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#26

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

danielbln wrote: post #18

seszett wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't they just switch to paper plates instead?

And wooden single-use cutlery is pretty common already today.

Really? I've never seen it in the US, except in the form of wooden coffee stirrers.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#27

Post by Brakenshire » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

progfix wrote: post #20

Why no plastic bottles as well? The vast majority of plastic I use is from bottles.

Probably because there is a health implication there, the possibility that people could get dehydrated and not have easy access to bottled water.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#28

Post by incog-neato » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

vimy wrote: post #5

The western world is responsible for 1,25 % of all ocean plastic pollution. Europe is only 0,28 %![0] There is no need to ban single-use plastics in the West. It's just virtue signaling and the so-called 'solutions' lower our comfort, will cause a rise in food poisoning deaths and are worse for the environment.[1] When you mention this, people reply we should set an example and other countries will follow. The idea t…

At some point the problem will become large enough that the UN will have to step up and start imposing sanctions on polluters. But we can hardly take a stand against others without fixing our own problems.

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#29

Post by Pfhreak » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

vimy wrote: post #5

The western world is responsible for 1,25 % of all ocean plastic pollution. Europe is only 0,28 %![0] There is no need to ban single-use plastics in the West. It's just virtue signaling and the so-called 'solutions' lower our comfort, will cause a rise in food poisoning deaths and are worse for the environment.[1] When you mention this, people reply we should set an example and other countries will follow. The idea t…

What if .5% is the biggest single chunk of plastic use you can eliminate in your sphere of influence? Should you:

a) Do nothing, because it's "only" 0.5%

b) Eliminate 0.5% because it's something you can do.

> It's just virtue signaling and the so-called 'solutions' lower our comfort

Oh, right, I see. Yeah, I mean you'll be comfortable for the next thirty years. Who cares about the next generation, am I right?

Re: EU to ban plastic plates, cups, and cutlery by 2021

#30

Post by randyrand » Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 5:09 PM UTC

incog-neato wrote: post #19

goodJobWalrus wrote: post #2

So what is the best replacement for fast food and takeaway purposes? Bamboo cutlery?

Why not: Fast food: metal cutlery at the restaurant that gets washed and reused. Take away: your own cutlery at home.

And if you're on the go? Eating as a passenger in a car, etc.