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Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

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Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#11

Post by tfha »

ams6110 wrote: post #5
iscrewyou wrote: post #3

They were accused before. I thought this was old news. Weren't they being accused of showing certain results to a certain demographic because the advertisers got to call the shots on who saw the ads? This is them getting charged. I think there is a distinction. Now lawyers are involved.

That's fine for some things. E.g. showing an ad for specific hair care products to black people. Not OK for housing/rental ads, credit/mortgage, etc. Facebook should have known better from the start and never enabled that kind of targeting for those types of ads.

Why is it okay sometimes but not all the time? If there are predatory ads for mortgages, there will be predatory ads for snacks and video games as well.

The goal of most advertising is to change your consumer behaviors regardless of what best for the consumer. In my opinion it's a huge net negative on society.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#12

Post by jandrese »

samfisher83 wrote: post #7
ams6110 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine for some things. E.g. showing an ad for specific hair care products to black people. Not OK for housing/rental ads, credit/mortgage, etc. Facebook should have known better from the start and never enabled that kind of targeting for those types of ads.

The thing its not a new law. Its been around for 50 something years. I remember they stressed this in American history and it was on the AP test too.

Still gets violated all the time too. When my parents bought a house outside New Orleans the realtor flat out told them which neighborhoods would be acceptable for them to look in.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#13

Post by dave5104 »

piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

Using your analogy, this is probably more akin to somebody going after a hardware store specializing in hammers to kill people. Sure, the government could spend the time trying to track down each individual patron and bring individual charges against each of them, but it's probably easier to go after the supplier and cut everyone off.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#14

Post by caprese »

Why are they not just subpoening Facebook to go after the people that actually did the ad targeting? It is probably happening but it would make more sense, and Facebook would understand the stance of the enforcement agency. Since HUD or a private citizen already is doing this, Facebook probably offered non-answers or something cocky and then got slapped with this.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#15

Post by duado »

tfha wrote: post #11
ams6110 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine for some things. E.g. showing an ad for specific hair care products to black people. Not OK for housing/rental ads, credit/mortgage, etc. Facebook should have known better from the start and never enabled that kind of targeting for those types of ads.

Why is it okay sometimes but not all the time? If there are predatory ads for mortgages, there will be predatory ads for snacks and video games as well. The goal of most advertising is to change your consumer behaviors regardless of what best for the consumer. In my opinion it's a huge net negative on society.

This has nothing to do with predatory ads. It’s because these ad policies can be used to exclude certain races from certain housing which is illegal.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#16

Post by techntoke »

piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

I guess you don't remember Backpage getting taken down?

Facebook creates the market for these types of targeted advertising to exist, and they should have at least a basic understanding of the laws and not permit companies to advertise to certain demographics when it would be in clear violation of the law.

That's like saying, oh we were too oblivious to understand how the platform we created could be used while we still profited significantly from our mistakes in the meantime.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#17

Post by gmueckl »

dave5104 wrote: post #13
piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

Using your analogy, this is probably more akin to somebody going after a hardware store specializing in hammers to kill people. Sure, the government could spend the time trying to track down each individual patron and bring individual charges against each of them, but it's probably easier to go after the supplier and cut everyone off.

For that, the shop must be in violation of a law. I am not a lawyer, but there are plenty of cases where the crime is punishable, but goods and services involved are not, even though these are clearly designed to facilitate.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#18

Post by thinkingkong »

techntoke wrote: post #16
piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

I guess you don't remember Backpage getting taken down? Facebook creates the market for these types of targeted advertising to exist, and they should have at least a basic understanding of the laws and not permit companies to advertise to certain demographics when it would be in clear violation of the law. That's like saying, oh we were too oblivious to understand how the platform we created could be used while we st…

Yeah and Ill argue that in todays current environment thats the “correct” business decision because thats how all the forces line up to push you.

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#19

Post by jdavis703 »

piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

These platforms can be overrun by a majority of discriminatory ads. I remember using Craigslist about a decade ago to rent housing in Virginia. Over half the ads easily contained some kind of gender, age, family or religious discrimination (interestingly enough I never saw an ad that explicitly listed race, I suspect that is because explicit racial discrimination is so taboo people used more implicit means of discrimination).

Re: Facebook Accused by HUD of Housing Bias Over Use of Targeted Ads

#20

Post by legohead »

piokoch wrote: post #10

I am not sure I understand the way Fair Housing Act is enforced. Facebook allows ads targeting. This is how it earns money. Apparently some people decided that they want to advertise houses to white Christians population, which is illegal in the USA - shouldn't be HUD after those who configured such criteria, not Facebook? Facebook provided only a tool. Nobody is after hardware store because a hammer bought there was…

Facebook doesn't have to allow you to target demographics. If you create an ad, mark it as type "housing", then things like race and wealth shouldn't be an option to target. It's illegal.

Using your analogy, when you buy a hammer you don't tell the cashier it's for murder.

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