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1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

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Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#41

Post by 49531 »

ido wrote: post #35
49531 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Russia fell down because they disrupted the ability of the market to send and receive accurate price signals and over time that led to catastrophically misallocated resources. This is extremely ahistorical. The fall of the USSR was due to Gorbachev's decision to introduce "western" markets into Russia and Yeltsin's opportunism. Growth and stability weren't flagging in the Soviet Union until they attempted to privat…

Economic growth was actually even worse before glasnost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Union#/m...

And if the US had been the one to capitulate to communism we'd be quoting stats about the lack of income growth of their workers in contrast to the wealthy.

Viewing the health of a nation on the growth of their income isn't necessarily telling the story. Soviet inflation was almost unheard of save for hyperinflation shortly after the revolution, and hyper inflation after the collapse. Also as investment wasn't as much of a driving force since the economy wasn't private, so infinite growth isn't necessarily a good indicator of the state of things.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#42

Post by xkcd-sucks »

maxxxxx wrote: post #34
mathattack wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if your company uses SuccessFactors you can see how little they’ve invested in engineering lately.

It always amazes how bad enterprise systems can be. My company uses SuccessFactors and also a thing called Windchill. After seeing how convoluted Windchill is you will think that SuccessFactors is actually quite decent. Kronos is also a great case study in terrible design.

Working at a startup that does b2b software it's pretty clear. "Tail wags the dog" development and placing the highest priority on C-level personal relationships

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#43

Post by dwaltrip »

ttul wrote: post #21
WhiteSource1 wrote: post #10

Left out Imperva, which was bought by Thoma Bravo in January. 150 people let go while the CEO makes $15 million. Mismanaged incentives - employees don't matter, just shareholders.

Umm... these are corporations. They are owned by shareholders and exist for the benefit of shareholders. I don’t see any subterfuge here.

If you don't think employees matter, that is an issue.

It is overly reductionist to say that a company exists solely for the benefit of the shareholders. Such a model is a rather incomplete description of reality.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#44

Post by C1sc0cat »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #31
C1sc0cat wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rochdale Pioneers Actually :-) Yes I do know there where precursors to worker coops in Italy prior to that.

I've followed the up and downs of Mondragon for the last decades. Raiffeisen is known in Germany.

Mondragon has a bit of a rep amongst other coops

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#45

Post by maxxxxx »

49531 wrote: post #38
maxxxxx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were slowly decaying like Cuba is doing now. Same for East Germany. There wasn’t much growth going on. Stability only in the sense of stagnation.

Infinite growth isn't necessarily the best way to measure success unless you're an investor. When we frame the world in that way a lot of "good" economies are harsh to live under, and "decaying" economies aren't bad from a quality of life standpoint.

Decaying economies are bad if they don't maintain their equipment and live off what previous generations created. You could see that in East Germany. They created a lot of stuff in the 50s and 60s and then they kept using that equipment until it fell apart. Same for buildings.You can do that for a while but eventually things will fall apart. You could argue that public infrastructure in the US is following the same path to some degree.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#46

Post by maxxxxx »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #42
maxxxxx wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It always amazes how bad enterprise systems can be. My company uses SuccessFactors and also a thing called Windchill. After seeing how convoluted Windchill is you will think that SuccessFactors is actually quite decent. Kronos is also a great case study in terrible design.

Working at a startup that does b2b software it's pretty clear. "Tail wags the dog" development and placing the highest priority on C-level personal relationships

It's the old problem where the decision makers never use what they buy. I hear that's also the problem with a lot of medical software.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#47

Post by magduf »

dwaltrip wrote: post #43
ttul wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm... these are corporations. They are owned by shareholders and exist for the benefit of shareholders. I don’t see any subterfuge here.

If you don't think employees matter, that is an issue. It is overly reductionist to say that a company exists solely for the benefit of the shareholders. Such a model is a rather incomplete description of reality.

>It is overly reductionist to say that a company exists solely for the benefit of the shareholders.

It's not reductionist at all; that's exactly how it is in a purely capitalist system, and how it is in America. It's different in other countries, like European ones and Japan, where companies really do have a responsibility to employees and society at large, but in America they don't have any such responsibility, no matter how much you would like it to be otherwise.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#48

Post by magduf »

49531 wrote: post #38
maxxxxx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were slowly decaying like Cuba is doing now. Same for East Germany. There wasn’t much growth going on. Stability only in the sense of stagnation.

Infinite growth isn't necessarily the best way to measure success unless you're an investor. When we frame the world in that way a lot of "good" economies are harsh to live under, and "decaying" economies aren't bad from a quality of life standpoint.

The Soviet-era economies were generally horrible to live under from everything I've read and heard, even from people who actually lived under them. Did you? There's a reason they wouldn't let people leave East Germany, and actually shot them if they tried, and why those people risked their lives regardless to get out, and also why almost no one from the West ever tried to "escape" to Soviet-bloc countries.

Re: 1100 layoffs at Bay Area tech companies

#49

Post by mosdl »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #13
skrebbel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SAP isn't a "Bay Area tech company" though.

When you drive down to San Jose you'll see several companies with a SAP logo who have been bought in the last 10 years in the HR space, e.g. SuccessFactors (2011).

I know the SAP HANA team got cut heavily.
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