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Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

abc.net.au

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Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#41

I was about ready to move all my email over to Fastmail before this happened. But not now.

Unless this is just a boycott of Australian tech services altogether based purely on principle, then it looks like the encryption laws might have actually helped you out on this one. They don't impact fastmail because fastmail already has access to your emails. So if you want an email provider that doesn't (protonmail?) then you almost made quite the mistake!

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#42
post #14
post #4

That's one of the biggest things that lawmakers here couldn't seem to understand - tech companies have high mobility across borders. Even if a law has no teeth, why would Microsoft store data in Australia when the next country over can still serve data for the region? It just creates too much risk, from a privacy and PR standpoint. Startups will be more adverse to founding in Australia as well. It just creates a blac…

They can do what Russia does and some of Europe do and require AU citizen data remain in AU.

Heard of FAANG minus Amazon (they don't work here) datacenters in Russia? There is none, as well as data storages here. Everyone gives 0f about this law, only huge targets have fines of ~$1M yearly.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#43
post #35
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ProtonMail’s inability to support standard clients without an awkward bridge app Isn't that one of the pros of Protonmail? All the data is encrypted and decrypted on the client. There is no way to have mail apps access the data without a piece of software that handles the encryption.

Unless you only send email to yourself, the hole in that idea is that all the recipients have a copy of your email.

So I should store all my bank statements in clear text because my bank has a copy of them too?

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#44
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have a legal right to both personal and private property under Australian law. I’m not sure where you got that idea.

The comment was referring to privacy presumably search and enter On an aside it appears Australia has done away with the self incrimination protection laws Is that a right in most democratic countries?

I’m sure an argument can be made that privacy extends from property, but that argument would have to be fleshed our and defended - I’m not sure I can accept at face value a point about there not being a right to property in Australia (essentially incorrect) because privacy is being eroded (which in any case sounds like faulty reasoning).

I’m fairly certain it’s still the case that you can’t be compelled to incriminate yourself in a court. Of course you have clearly unjust laws like those concerning the Building/Construction Commission in which an ad hoc court can compel you to give evidence against yourself, but this is an abberation which has not had the opportunity to be challenged in the High Court AFAIK, and it will likely be abolished when Labor comes back into power.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#45

I was about ready to move all my email over to Fastmail before this happened. But not now.

I recently moved to Fastmail and couldn't be happier.

Like others have said, you really should never count on email being a private medium. I switched mainly to remove my email from Google's sources of data collection on me: this is the level of privacy that is important to me. If I wanted to hide from state sponsored actors I wouldn't be using email at all.

A nice side effect of moving to Fastmail is being able to use their amazing Web UI, which is so much faster and more responsive than Gmail's super bloated interface.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#46
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australians have very few constitutionally guaranteed rights (compared to countries such as the US). The Constitution only gives us the right to vote, the right to a trial by jury, and freedom of religion (and a few others). But many more rights, including extensive privacy rights, exist in statute law and elsewhere. The main argument against adding more rights to the Constitution, is: "we don't want to end up with o…

The U.S. actually goes a step further... the only rights the constitution actually spells out are the rights of government. Most encroachments have been under the guise of "interstate commerce" or "taxation" in general... > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. As to the bill of rights, so long…

Yeah, but the problem is that the Constitution says that you can't infringe on the right to bear arms, and telling me that I can't have a mutated anthrax grenade is, technically, infringing on my right to bear arms. The only reason we're still alive is that lawyers don't parse words in the way that engineers do.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#47
post #34
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australians have very few constitutionally guaranteed rights (compared to countries such as the US). The Constitution only gives us the right to vote, the right to a trial by jury, and freedom of religion (and a few others). But many more rights, including extensive privacy rights, exist in statute law and elsewhere. The main argument against adding more rights to the Constitution, is: "we don't want to end up with o…

In the US there's no explicit right to vote.

To add to dragonwriter's post, there is also the 17th amendment:

"The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures."

It's exceptionally clear that it's an explicit right to vote for the election of senators.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#48
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australians have very few constitutionally guaranteed rights (compared to countries such as the US). The Constitution only gives us the right to vote, the right to a trial by jury, and freedom of religion (and a few others). But many more rights, including extensive privacy rights, exist in statute law and elsewhere. The main argument against adding more rights to the Constitution, is: "we don't want to end up with o…

The U.S. actually goes a step further... the only rights the constitution actually spells out are the rights of government. Most encroachments have been under the guise of "interstate commerce" or "taxation" in general... > The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. As to the bill of rights, so long…

Australia’s constitution doesn’t quite operate in the same way, but the Australian federal government’s powers are enumerated in the constitution much like in the US constitution - as you say, governments are given positive rights by the constitution, and restricted in their power in other areas.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#49
post #45

I was about ready to move all my email over to Fastmail before this happened. But not now.

I recently moved to Fastmail and couldn't be happier. Like others have said, you really should never count on email being a private medium. I switched mainly to remove my email from Google's sources of data collection on me: this is the level of privacy that is important to me. If I wanted to hide from state sponsored actors I wouldn't be using email at all. A nice side effect of moving to Fastmail is being able to u…

I feel the same way! Definitely couldn't be happier.

And I agree about the web UI. I usually read and compose my email inside Emacs, but their web interface is very nice when necessary.

Re: Microsoft says encryption laws make companies wary of storing data in Australia

#50
post #18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have a legal right to both personal and private property under Australian law. I’m not sure where you got that idea.

I'm interested to know what the farmers whose properties get taken by mining companies have to say about that. Though genuinely unsure and curious as to whether that's a separate legal (or perhaps media reporting) issue.

Well two things here.

The first is that a lot of agricultural land is leasehold, not freehold.

The second is that below a certain depth, the Crown owns what's underground and has the right to go through your property to get to its property, whether directly or by leasing it to a mining company.

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