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What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

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Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#21

Post by woliveirajr »

Tangokat wrote: post #19

I used to play a lot of poker online back in the day, two lessons stuck with me: Speaking to the variance of the game: "Eventually you will run worse than you ever thought possible" Poker teaches, contrary to most business literature, to not be results oriented. It is the decision not the result that matters. "You can do everything right and still lose".

> You can do everything right and still lose

This one. I'm not sure how many readers I would have if I tried to explain it in a book, but I'm tired (to the point that I don't read the books, just the covers) about how everything will be ok if you just wish.

When you just learn that sometimes people fail even having taking the best possible decision at any point, you get another perspective for your life.

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#22

Post by gagagababa »

kaycebasques wrote: post #20
Tangokat wrote: post #19

I used to play a lot of poker online back in the day, two lessons stuck with me: Speaking to the variance of the game: "Eventually you will run worse than you ever thought possible" Poker teaches, contrary to most business literature, to not be results oriented. It is the decision not the result that matters. "You can do everything right and still lose".

What’s the opposite of results-oriented in this case? I.e. what should you orient toward, if not results?

To maximize expected value (EV). You can go all in with AA pre-flop and get a bad beat from someone with 27o. While the result is bad (you lost this time), you made a +EV decision because you were ~80% favorite to win so over the long run this move will actually be profitable.

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#23

Post by GavinMcG »

kaycebasques wrote: post #20
Tangokat wrote: post #19

I used to play a lot of poker online back in the day, two lessons stuck with me: Speaking to the variance of the game: "Eventually you will run worse than you ever thought possible" Poker teaches, contrary to most business literature, to not be results oriented. It is the decision not the result that matters. "You can do everything right and still lose".

What’s the opposite of results-oriented in this case? I.e. what should you orient toward, if not results?

Fundamental good practices.

In poker terms: you can't judge by winning or losing, only by whether your decisions were +EV or -EV.

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#24

Post by javitury »

kaycebasques wrote: post #20
Tangokat wrote: post #19

I used to play a lot of poker online back in the day, two lessons stuck with me: Speaking to the variance of the game: "Eventually you will run worse than you ever thought possible" Poker teaches, contrary to most business literature, to not be results oriented. It is the decision not the result that matters. "You can do everything right and still lose".

What’s the opposite of results-oriented in this case? I.e. what should you orient toward, if not results?

Not a poker player, but I think you don't focus on realized results, you have to focus on expected results. What is gone is gone.

Let's say you play texas hol'em, you go all-in with AA in the first round and lose. The expected payoff was positive even if you have lost. And if you were given the chance to play again, you should keep playing the same way.

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#25

Post by draw_down »

kaycebasques wrote: post #20
Tangokat wrote: post #19

I used to play a lot of poker online back in the day, two lessons stuck with me: Speaking to the variance of the game: "Eventually you will run worse than you ever thought possible" Poker teaches, contrary to most business literature, to not be results oriented. It is the decision not the result that matters. "You can do everything right and still lose".

What’s the opposite of results-oriented in this case? I.e. what should you orient toward, if not results?

As GP said, you focus on making the correct decision given the circumstances. You can’t be results oriented because the results involve things out of your control. Which means it’s possible to win after making a bad play, and to lose after making a correct play.

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#26

Post by paulcole »

kaycebasques wrote: post #20
Tangokat wrote: post #19

I used to play a lot of poker online back in the day, two lessons stuck with me: Speaking to the variance of the game: "Eventually you will run worse than you ever thought possible" Poker teaches, contrary to most business literature, to not be results oriented. It is the decision not the result that matters. "You can do everything right and still lose".

What’s the opposite of results-oriented in this case? I.e. what should you orient toward, if not results?

Process and decision-making. Confidently make the correct decision every time and trust that your edge will pay off in the long run.

This is the #1 thing I learned from being a serious and competitive Scrabble player.

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#27

Post by slashdotdash »

woliveirajr wrote: post #21
Tangokat wrote: post #19

I used to play a lot of poker online back in the day, two lessons stuck with me: Speaking to the variance of the game: "Eventually you will run worse than you ever thought possible" Poker teaches, contrary to most business literature, to not be results oriented. It is the decision not the result that matters. "You can do everything right and still lose".

> You can do everything right and still lose This one. I'm not sure how many readers I would have if I tried to explain it in a book, but I'm tired (to the point that I don't read the books, just the covers) about how everything will be ok if you just wish. When you just learn that sometimes people fail even having taking the best possible decision at any point, you get another perspective for your life.

"Thinking in Bets: Making Smarter Decisions When You Don't Have All the Facts" by Annie Duke [1] is just that book. It emphasises that a bad result does not have to be the result of a bad decision.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35957157-thinking-in-bet...

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#28

Post by comboy »

DigiMortal wrote: post #3

"No one knows what cards you have. All they know is the information that you convey. I think that’s a very valuable thing to remember in any negotiation."

Well, except business is not zero sum. The game is not over when you lay all your cards on the table.

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#29

Post by IshKebab »

kadabra9 wrote: post #11

Tournament poker is just brutal. It's entirely common to go 15, 20 tournaments without cashing. You can play great poker, sometimes over the span of a few days, and suddenly get hit with a cold deck or get unlucky and poof you are eliminated with nothing, along with your chance at a 5 or 6 figure top prize. Then you have to suck it back up and move on to the next one. The variance is just insane, which is why a lot o…

This is why I don't really like poker. There's just too much variance. Unless you play again and again and again there's not much correlation between skill and the winner.

I think it's why people also believe there is "beginners' luck" - there isn't really - the entire game has tons of luck. But when confronted with someone who clearly isn't skilled but wins anyway, poker fans really don't want to face the reality that the game is mostly luck.

Another issue with poker - at least Texas Hold'em - is that the best strategy is folding 90% of the time, which is just boring.

I'm sure there are much better bluffing games.

Re: What Winning $250k at Poker Taught Me About Money

#30

Post by whbk »

kadabra9 wrote: post #11

Tournament poker is just brutal. It's entirely common to go 15, 20 tournaments without cashing. You can play great poker, sometimes over the span of a few days, and suddenly get hit with a cold deck or get unlucky and poof you are eliminated with nothing, along with your chance at a 5 or 6 figure top prize. Then you have to suck it back up and move on to the next one. The variance is just insane, which is why a lot o…

Yeah, I love tournament poker but can't imagine playing live tournaments for a living. I played a ton online before Black Friday too, pretty successfully, and then was one of the top online tournament players when I got back into it for a bit while I was outside of the US a couple years back.

As a last hurrah before getting back to startups I traveled to one big live festival..played terrible in the $10k main event due to poor sleep after travel and got 3-outed just before the money after playing great in a satellite to the $25k. It's one thing to miss the money after playing great for ~5 hours in a $500 tournament from the comfort of your own home...consistently walking away -$15k+ in the hole after expenses for days worth of effort? No thanks.

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