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Facebook to ban white nationalist content

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Re: Facebook to ban white nationalist content

#51
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason the valley has trumpeted the "we're just a platform" is that it was better for the bottom line and shareholders. Now it no longer is.

Reddit went through this too.

Reddit still allows white supremacists and other assorted awful things to go through their platform.

Re: Facebook to ban white nationalist content

#53

There is merit to maintaining an open environment. Censorship makes the censored content seem lucratively dangerous; it looks like the powers that be are afraid of what some people are saying. I think it is best to let bad arguments fail on their own merit. The problem is that most people are unable to recognize a bad argument.

Except they are not censored. If these groups feel like they want to espouse these dangerous ideas they still can. They don't need Facebook to do and the rest of us can ignore them. But at the moment Facebook's and Youtube's algorithms put some of this crap front and center in your browser. To the unsuspecting this can seem like validating and endorsing those ideas.

Re: Facebook to ban white nationalist content

#54
post #6

Good to see the Valley is starting to get off its "we are just a platform, all information should be free and neutral no matter how bad, so we're not responsible" extremism of the past few years and understand that some forms of speech are harmful should not ever be encouraged and accelerated on any platform or technology, ever. To the people that say "Where does it end?" – that's pretty easy. Let's start with curbin…

The only reason the valley has trumpeted the "we're just a platform" is that it was better for the bottom line and shareholders. Now it no longer is.

You make this just about greed when it's also about toil. Nobody likes dealing with the filth that some people share. The armies of content moderators that have to deal with it don't have happy jobs.

This is a category of labor that formerly wasn't necessary, and yet somehow now it is. Why is that? How can we make it go away?

Perhaps the monetary incentives will provide motivation to solve it.

Re: Facebook to ban white nationalist content

#56
post #13

This is good. I am, though, concerned about the negative externalities that could arise. Will this lead to new and stranger commercial activities?

If you want a negative example, check out Voat. It started as a "less moderated/censored reddit" and quickly filled with actual nazis and other vitriol. A business cannot survive on "We accept hate speech" in the same way 4chan has never really been a business proposition; Nobody wants to look like they are supporting hate speech so advertisers won't go near it with a ten foot pole. IMO, this is a good thing, and imp…

"The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one’s time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all."

Re: Facebook to ban white nationalist content

#57
post #6

Good to see the Valley is starting to get off its "we are just a platform, all information should be free and neutral no matter how bad, so we're not responsible" extremism of the past few years and understand that some forms of speech are harmful should not ever be encouraged and accelerated on any platform or technology, ever. To the people that say "Where does it end?" – that's pretty easy. Let's start with curbin…

> To the people that say "Where does it end?" – that's pretty easy. Let's start with curbing speech that encourages harming others.

"Speech that harms people" and "speech that hurt people's feelings" are so closely related and sometimes people (intentionally or unintentionally) mix them up.

Re: Facebook to ban white nationalist content

#58
post #18

Why not ban all racism, all hate, everything? Doing just one is PR only.

I imagine that's because it's sometimes subjective and difficult to define. We tend to focus on the obvious cases, but not all of them are. What about the discussion of e.g. race and it's correlation to IQ? How about discussion of trans issues and viewpoints which contradict what trans activists want to hear? Are we allowed to talk about biological differences between men and women which some find offensive?

They are all valid topics to discuss civilly, but some believe that even having a discussion is racist/homophobic/sexist. My fear is that it will move beyond what we've legally defined as hate speech and into "don't hurt people's feelings" territory.

Re: Facebook to ban white nationalist content

#59
post #12
post #6

Good to see the Valley is starting to get off its "we are just a platform, all information should be free and neutral no matter how bad, so we're not responsible" extremism of the past few years and understand that some forms of speech are harmful should not ever be encouraged and accelerated on any platform or technology, ever. To the people that say "Where does it end?" – that's pretty easy. Let's start with curbin…

> To the people that say "Where does it end?" – that's pretty easy. Let's start with curbing speech that encourages harming others. This may come as a surprise to you, but this response will not be comforting to those with genuine concerns about civil liberties. Avoiding the question of where to draw the final line with the question of where to draw the first one just implies that you intend to draw more lines in the…

It's a surprisingly comforting response. This ends with decentralization. Let's force all platforms to ban anything even mildly offensive.

Re: Facebook to ban white nationalist content

#60
I am very much pro free speech. In the sense of nothing should be disallowed. I think platforms should be built in a way that there really cannot arise an ultra-(right/left/X) bubble. Facebook should build mechanisms like they can be found here on HN. If I would write something really offensive I'd get downvoted and eventually my post would vanish. That feedback by the community is extremely important, because I get to learn what goes and what not. Just deleting unwanted opinions makes things worse. People build up aggression against "the system" and feel censored by the wrong mechanisms. If I, however, see that the majority dislikes my opinions I know where the problem is.
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