A guide to difficult conversations • Hacker News Board

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#381

Post by tomp » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 12:38 PM UTC

ehsanu1 wrote: post #357

tomp wrote: post #72

Another interesting idea: apparently, positive motivation (reward) works much better than negative motivation (punishment). Allegedly it's "scientifically proven" (for some definition of "scientifically") which I haven't yet taken the time to research, but I plan to. I've been thinking about how to apply this in two of the most important areas of interpersonal interaction in our lives, in our careers and in interpers…

Rewards can also backfire. I'm currently reading "Punished by Rewards", by Alfie Kohn, which spells out all the ways in which rewards are counterproductive. Interestingly enough, I found this book via Marshall Rosenberg's book on non-violent communication, in which Marshall urges us not to use rewards as a means to manipulate others (and not to use punishments for that purpose either of course).

Interesting... Yeah, I didn't mean "manipulate", more to observe the behaviour that we would do naturally (e.g. things like praise, expressing anger, ignoring someone when we're dissatisfied with their behaviour, promotions, etc.) and shifting most of the "punishment"-type responses into "reward"-type responses.

Can that (i.e. non-manipulative rewarding behaviour) still backfire? Probably, although I'm then not sure what the solution is... to influence reality and your own well-being, you have act, and even the most fail-safe behaviour (like not spending time with a person anymore) is described by the above framework (i.e. it's a type of punishment), and furthermore it's not always possible (e.g. with children, or if you want a job and a relationship, most people seem to).

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#382

Post by tomohawk » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 12:49 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

Its heartbreaking when these things happen.

All I can say, is for anyone reading this, if you do not have a will, medical power of attorney, and medical advance directive set up - do it now. Spare your loved ones this kind of confusion and hurt.

After you create these, make sure to tell your loved ones what your expectations are. You need to pick someone to have medical power of attorney who will defend your wishes. You also need to file your directive with your local hospitals and care providers.

This may be a difficult conversation, but not having it can cause many more problems.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#383

Post by kyteland » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 12:55 PM UTC

randyrand wrote: post #236

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

As someone with many brothers and sisters, how is Power of Attorney determined? Just curious.

I have no idea about what happens in the moment but it is best determined long before a situation like this arises. My mom is an RN and has seen first hand the need to have this set up prior to a serious situation happening. I have health care power of attorney for her instead of my dad or sister because she believes I'm more likely to follow her wishes around extreme measures being taken or being put on life support. I hope I'm never put in that situation but if it happens the whole family has already talked about what she wants and I'm the person with HCPOA.

It's a hard conversation that most people desperately try to avoid but if you haven't already set it up (especially if you're married or have kids) you should set a goal to do that this year. There are lots of simple guides online to help you put something in place or you can hire a professional to guide you if you have a more complicated personal situation.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#384

Post by Zelphyr » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 1:22 PM UTC

elhudy wrote: post #203

Zelphyr wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't give up on your brother-in-law. He's making seemingly irrational decisions but look at it from is point of view. His father may be dying. Regardless of his relationship with his father, this is a very difficult thing to go through. And then he suddenly has a lot of responsibility placed on him. He's having to answer questions he's never been asked before much less having given much thought to. He's being told t…

Instead of making space, what are your thoughts on OP leveraging these perceptions to find common ground? E.g., "We understand that we need you to be the man of the family, and appreciate that you have stepped up to be strong for all of us. We would like to support you in doing so and feel that our greatest assistance would be in helping to facilitate communications for you. Is this something you're able to allow?" S…

I think it can be done in a much simpler way: "What do you need?" If he says, "nothing" then you reply "Ok. Let me know if that changes. I'll help in whatever way you want." and then move on. He's not going to budge right now, but he might in the future. You've planted a seed with him that you're available. He might never reach out. There's nothing else you can do that is productive but accept that.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#385

Post by thrav » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 1:44 PM UTC

rsweeney21 wrote: post #119

The formative years of my career were spent as a software engineer at Microsoft where communication was direct and sometimes harsh. Code reviews could be particularly harsh with comments like "this code is bad because..." or "this is unreadable." At first it was really hard, but eventually my skin got pretty think. I even came to love the efficiency of direct communication in programming. When I became a founder, the…

I strongly disagree.

Sales, Marketing, and CS people are perfectly capable of handling direct conversation, if it’s done with genuine respect and a desire for mutual benefit. Your approach, based on some of your examples, sounds outright dismissive and disrespectful.

I’ve spent time around lots of engineering leaders and lots of their CS, Sales and Marketing teams. The good engineering leaders recognize that those people excel in many ways they never will, and have genuine respect for that, and ask more questions about their approach. The bad ones think they know everything, treat complex issues like a code review, and carelessly dismiss their work when it’s not what they would’ve done.

I think using one of these strategies probably changed you as much as it changed them.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#386

Post by 2arrs2ells » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 2:19 PM UTC

cljs-js-eval wrote: post #349

treis wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see the purpose in sharing that I'm frustrated. Is it supposed to make the recipient feel bad?

It's because NVC has taken away the natural way for people to express frustration, which is by being short with the other person. Personally, I don't get it either. No one I'm frustrated with seems to understand that if I tell them in an unhurried, matter-of-fact way. They may say that they prefer me to express frustration that way, but it gets no results. I don't see the appeal.

NVC is most effective if you share your feelings in an authentic and vulnerable way. This isn’t the same as being in the feeling (ex getting angry or frustrated) or staying them in a matter-of-fact way.

The magic of NVC comes from the recipient empathizing with the person making the request.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#387

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 2:28 PM UTC

dodobirdlord wrote: post #366

logfromblammo wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is there something you want me to do?" is a slightly less hostile way of saying "Get to the point." "The petitioner did not make a request upon which relief can be granted." might set off a snark detector, and "The ticketing system already automatically notifies the requester that their ticket has been closed." might inadvertently imply that the supervisor does not know how to do their job.

My habitual response to these sorts of messages has been to just affirm the statement. > "Hey, I see that you closed out Ticket #XYZ without any resolution or response sent to the requester." > "yes" / "yup" / "indeed" / "true" It's an effective way to sidestep having to pay attention until the person comes up with an actual question or request.

"That is a true statement." is one that is frequently used around here. It sounds very engineer-y, and has no inflectional or emotional connotations whatsoever. It's about as sterile as a SYN-ACK packet. I heard what you just said, and evaluated it for correctness. Current computation completed, and ready for additional input.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#388

Post by mgamache » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 2:43 PM UTC

tomhoward wrote: post #367

mgamache wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I accept that my second response was not of the highest standard, but came from frustration that i felt a down-vote needed explanation (which your comment provided unlike other anon person). My original dismissal was not shallow. The article makes some valid points on how best to approach some interpersonal communication. However, the equivocation of words to violence is part of the postmodern attack on science. This…

The author literally writes "Nonviolent Communication (NVC) is an awful name for one of the most powerful communication courses I’ve ever taken." So clearly the author/article is not endorsing the term, but using it for the purpose of familiarity and conciseness. > the equivocation of words to violence is part of the postmodern attack on science I've been a sympathiser with the culture-wars faction that makes claims…

Yes words can convey threats and still not be non-violent. For example, if I say. "You are lazy" that's not violent, but it is a threat that I might not want to work with you in the future. Does this feel like a physical threat? Maybe, but only to the extent that our social standing has been correlated with survival. It's a social threat, not a physical one. Only in a society where true violence is rare would we ever confuse the two.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#389

Post by jshowa3 » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 2:50 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

Sometimes you have to realize that there is no way to solve such a situation. I think the best situation in this case is to resolve it through the court system. It's incredibly hard to convince people to give up power on their own unless they have a certain disposition, there's no disincentive in doing it, or there's no consequence to them when keeping it. They need to be given a clear consequence if they don't.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#390

Post by phkahler » Wed, Mar 27, 2019, 3:04 PM UTC

jshowa3 wrote: post #389

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

Sometimes you have to realize that there is no way to solve such a situation. I think the best situation in this case is to resolve it through the court system. It's incredibly hard to convince people to give up power on their own unless they have a certain disposition, there's no disincentive in doing it, or there's no consequence to them when keeping it. They need to be given a clear consequence if they don't.

>> It's incredibly hard to convince people to give up power...

When I read that I thought the word power was important. The OPs brother-in-law is probably feeling a lot of things, one of which may well be "powerless" in the face of what is happening with his father. I'm not sure what involving the court is going to do in this case - for the patient or the interpersonal issues.