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If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

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Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#31

Post by kkarakk »

MrGilbert wrote: post #4
senectus1 wrote: post #3

i mean.. that's nice. but damn. If they dont qualify as deserving to reap their rewards... I dont know who does! Edit: It seems like they may be vaguely referencing Markus "Notch" Persson's cash flush success after selling Minecraft. I think just being self aware enough to be worried about how "money" might change them should be enough to settle their worries. Notch had a rough time for a while, but he was always a v…

> these guys are a lot less public and I'd suggest less susceptible to being led astray They were in a niche, staying away from the "big players". Now that they join Steam, they'll be inevitably dragged in to "public" (if you'd like to call it that way). I really hope that... - ... they can handle it - ... they can deal with the negative reviews of that kind of player that don't understand the concept of the game. Fo…

i'm sure the review section will be a battlefield just like any dark souls review section is

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#32

Post by philo23 »

fbnlsr wrote: post #28

DF seems amazing but the learning curve is so steep it's discouraging. I've yet to find a base building game that feels fair and does not put so much pressure on the player. Tried Prison Architect but my prison got burnt to the ground because guards were on strike (and they announced it 3 hours before while it takes 5 hours to be able to offer them a raise). Tried Oxygen Not Included but the water behaves SO erratica…

I'd highly recommend giving Rimworld a go. It's like a simplified version of Dwarf Fortress but with a space theme.

The controls are much more friendly and there's a huge number of mods that can completely change the way you can play the game.

It definitely doesn't have the level of depth that Dwarf Fortress has (there's no z-levels for example) but it'll still suck hours of your life away if you're not careful.

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#33

Post by kkarakk »

pvg wrote: post #7
senectus1 wrote: post #3

i mean.. that's nice. but damn. If they dont qualify as deserving to reap their rewards... I dont know who does! Edit: It seems like they may be vaguely referencing Markus "Notch" Persson's cash flush success after selling Minecraft. I think just being self aware enough to be worried about how "money" might change them should be enough to settle their worries. Notch had a rough time for a while, but he was always a v…

Why do you feel it's alluding to Notch? There are plenty of game developers who've struck it rich and the Dwarf Fortress authors' concerns about sudden wealth seem pretty specific to them.

>Plenty of game devs who've struck it rich

Source? Why is notch held up as the primary example if it's as common as that?

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#34

Post by rscnt »

fbnlsr wrote: post #28

DF seems amazing but the learning curve is so steep it's discouraging. I've yet to find a base building game that feels fair and does not put so much pressure on the player. Tried Prison Architect but my prison got burnt to the ground because guards were on strike (and they announced it 3 hours before while it takes 5 hours to be able to offer them a raise). Tried Oxygen Not Included but the water behaves SO erratica…

You'll like Rimworld [1] and Factorio [2]

1: https://rimworldgame.com/ 2: https://www.factorio.com/

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#35

Post by TomMarius »

Illniyar wrote: post #29
baud147258 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I'm pretty sure you can get bankrupted by illness in any country

No, you can lose your job or means of making money in some countries, but you can't get bankrupted by paying for treatment in countries with universal healthcare (or even close to it). Most developed countries also have some measures of social security in cases where you lose your job so that even that is rare.

There are just a few (under 5) countries in the world where you will get the same treatment for "free" as you'd get in the US. The price is >65% taxation. In most of these "universal healthcare" countries, it's not that easy - a healthcare "insurance" is deducted from your wage, if you don't work, you have to pay it out of pocket (mandatory, but cheap - around $100 monthly). Social security programmes are useful just for literally homeless people, other people aren't getting much, really (you will not get anything if you have a job).

In other countries with universal healthcare, the law says that you will get only "medically necessary" treatment, amd everything else needs to be paid out of your pocket - and in these countries, no private insurance usually exists, so have fun with that.

Another point is quality of hospitalization care, again - there are less than 5 countries in the world where you'd get the same thing as in the US. In other countries you will share room with 5 other people, and be aware that usually at least one family member per patient is always present. Treatments such as colonoscopy are done in your room, btw. There usually is just one male and one female toilet and shower per ~10 rooms, of course used by the family members as well. The food is literally uneatable 99% of the time, 1% of the time you're lucky and it's plain bread and tea (nothing to screw up on that). Prepare yourself to be screamed at regularly by doctors and nurses. Prepare yourself to be bellitled at every opportunity. And prepare yourself that your family members might die because noone listened to them, and the only compensation you can get is the sentence "well, that's just the system, the government really didn't want that" - correct, no monetary compensation, no fines, no prison.

Did I mention that there is no way to go private other than paying out of pocket, and of course who would run a medical company in a country with universal healthcare?

Source: my whole life in a "universal healthcare" country.

Edit: Let the downvotes flow, I just stated my experience, definitely a downvote-worthy comment, lol. Dumbass me thought we would discuss.

Seems interesting tho. Almost every time I write my experiences with universal healthcare, I'm immediatelly (within 5 minutes) heavily downvoted, without any discussion. Hard denial? Universal healthcare definitely helps pharma and medical companies (they can overprice a lot, just like with any other governmental project). Lobby?

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#36

Post by majewsky »

gilleain wrote: post #22
corodra wrote: post #20

Everyone is always above money until they’re looking at a stack of it in front of them. The only folks I know that have the willpower to turn down a pile of money is someone who has their eyes set on a mountain of money.

Some people have burned it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Foundation#The_K_Foundation_...

I prefer what https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineapple_Fund did with their unexpected fortune.

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#37

Post by Illniyar »

Pimpus wrote: post #16
ndnxhs wrote: post #11

Dwarf fortress always seems like a brilliant idea wrapped up in a terrible ui and execution. I recently started playing rimworld and its a very similar game but much easier to get started on. The game progressively gives you tips and messages on how to get better and do stuff rather than requiring you to spend hours reading a wiki to get started.

Yeah, the idea of it is attractive, and learning the crazy UI is half the fun, but once you really get into it you realize that there is no there there. It's nowhere near as complex as it seems, and full of bugs, some decades old. Trade is so easily exploited that there is nothing exciting about the elves coming. You can kill them and start a war, but the combat is so unbalanced and exploitable that they pose no thre…

I don't think "nowhere near as complex as it seems" is anywhere close to describing what many consider the most complex game ever built, including many industry veterans. Every material has dozens of variables (such as density), every creature's limb acts differently, there are thousands of materials and object types and most are researched thoroughly.

It is the most complex simulation game ever created (though not the most accurate). The fact that it's not very hard to play as you'd imagine, does not mean it is not complex.

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#38

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

TomMarius wrote: post #35
Illniyar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can lose your job or means of making money in some countries, but you can't get bankrupted by paying for treatment in countries with universal healthcare (or even close to it). Most developed countries also have some measures of social security in cases where you lose your job so that even that is rare.

There are just a few (under 5) countries in the world where you will get the same treatment for "free" as you'd get in the US. The price is >65% taxation. In most of these "universal healthcare" countries, it's not that easy - a healthcare "insurance" is deducted from your wage, if you don't work, you have to pay it out of pocket (mandatory, but cheap - around $100 monthly). Social security programmes are useful just…

"In other countries with universal healthcare [...]"

Not sure where you live or where you've been too, but you make some sweeping arguments about dozens of countries.

Mostly everything you say is wrong about Germany (>65% taxation, no private insurance, share room with 5 people, treatments in your room, toilet not in the room, uneatable food, ...).

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#39

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

TomMarius wrote: post #35
Illniyar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can lose your job or means of making money in some countries, but you can't get bankrupted by paying for treatment in countries with universal healthcare (or even close to it). Most developed countries also have some measures of social security in cases where you lose your job so that even that is rare.

There are just a few (under 5) countries in the world where you will get the same treatment for "free" as you'd get in the US. The price is >65% taxation. In most of these "universal healthcare" countries, it's not that easy - a healthcare "insurance" is deducted from your wage, if you don't work, you have to pay it out of pocket (mandatory, but cheap - around $100 monthly). Social security programmes are useful just…

Perhaps you're being downvoted because you're unable to back up any of these vague claims with facts.

I'm not sure which country you're talking about but this doesn't reflect my experience of healthcare in the UK at all (presumably one of the 5 countries you mention).

Our private healthcare system is truly world class and very affordable (it has to compete with the NHS, after all). Yes, medical insurance is available to cover this. That said, even the NHS will routinely cover treatments that aren't "medically necessary" - even cosmetic surgery in some cases where it will demonstrably improve the patient's quality of life.

I don't believe there are any countries in the world with ">65% taxation". What is this figure even referring to?

Re: If Dwarf Fortress sells millions on Steam, its creators will give the money away

#40

Post by TomMarius »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #38
TomMarius wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are just a few (under 5) countries in the world where you will get the same treatment for "free" as you'd get in the US. The price is >65% taxation. In most of these "universal healthcare" countries, it's not that easy - a healthcare "insurance" is deducted from your wage, if you don't work, you have to pay it out of pocket (mandatory, but cheap - around $100 monthly). Social security programmes are useful just…

"In other countries with universal healthcare [...]" Not sure where you live or where you've been too, but you make some sweeping arguments about dozens of countries. Mostly everything you say is wrong about Germany (>65% taxation, no private insurance, share room with 5 people, treatments in your room, toilet not in the room, uneatable food, ...).

Germany is one of the five countries, and it has the lowest taxes among them. The rest are Austria and Scandinavian countries where total taxation rate approaches 70% all things factored in (I'm counting indirect taxes as well).

Isn't it interesting that the best healthcare system in the world is entirely privatized, in Switzerland?

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