Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A guide to difficult conversations

medium.dave-bailey.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 415 posts

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#341

Post by diminoten »

dragonwriter wrote: post #98
weeksie wrote: post #14

It's funny because few things make me seethe like someone talking to me in this way during a high stress moment. The artifice is transparent and if the conversation is tense the tone is quite easy to read as condescension. I'm hardly dismissing NVC as a tactic, just that when done poorly it's worse than simply being direct.

> I'm hardly dismissing NVC as a tactic, But...you should be. The entire problem you relate is about NVC as an insincere, indirect tactic (most likely, to avoid an ultimatum in a situation where the speaker isn't seeking mutual understanding and accommodation but submissive compliance.) NVC as a tactic relied on an implicit lie about the relationship which forms the context of the communication. As a honest tool in a…

> most likely, to avoid an ultimatum in a situation where the speaker isn't seeking mutual understanding and accommodation but submissive compliance.

THIS IS IT!

This is exactly what the problem is with this bullshit; when it's not actually constructive, it's disingenuous. When you're not trying to come to a better understanding, you're trying to drag someone by the nose, it gives you a way to avoid the actual problem/conversation.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#344

Post by [deleted] »

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

[deleted]

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#345

Post by m3kw9 »

leesalminen wrote: post #126

I’m generally a good conversation participant, but this week has made me second guess myself. My father-in-law is currently hospitalized after his heart stopped this weekend. He’s currently in an induced coma. Brain damage is a foregone conclusion at this point and they’re unsure if he will ever regain consciousness. My wife and I happened to be on vacation in Costa Rica when this happened. We hopped on the next avai…

First you need to digg deep to see things from his perspective and acknowledge to him that it is how he is feeling, then the conversation will open up more. (Empathy), next try and restart the conversation by apologizing and ask a question that gets him to say no, so he feels he is in control. Then follow it up with an open ended question like “what is your sister supposed to do?” because he felt some sense of control from the previous question, he may concede something on his own. Make sure you prepare the questions and not wing it.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#346

Post by pdonis »

johnchristopher wrote: post #290
leesalminen wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right. I will call today without any agenda or goals. I really do want to be there for him. Nobody should have to take this on alone.

> The family (not my wife) asked me to talk to my brother-in-law about this because nobody else could get through to him. I am a stranger on the net but your first priority is your wife and your relationship with her. Be very cautious with demands from the family even if well meaning. Protect yourself and your relationship with your wife.

I second this comment. If the wife has not asked for the intervention, the first obvious question is, why not? That's something that needs to be cleared up with the wife before anything else is done.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#347

Post by darkpuma »

greg7gkb wrote: post #256
edoloughlin wrote: post #158

When [you use NVC on me], I feel [patronised] because I'm needing some [respect as a fellow human being]. Would you be able to [drop the insincere MBA bullshit and treat me like an adult]?

It's a guide, and once it's been used a few times the language can be adapted to sound more like your nature voice but still conveying the same information.

> "once it's been used a few times the language can be adapted to sound more like your nature voice"

My natural voice? Is that my violent one?

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#348

Post by pdonis »

leesalminen wrote: post #161
freyir wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often seen families get particularly hostile when an in-law involves him or herself with the death or illness of a parent. It doesn't matter whether you're right or what approach you use. They're likely in one of the worst times of their life, and they're not going to be receptive to negotiation tactics. Why is your wife not having this conversation?

Unfortunately they’re both terrible to each other. Always have been, likely always will be. Even in relatively stressless situations they end up at each other’s throats in seconds. The family (not my wife) asked me to talk to my brother-in-law about this because nobody else could get through to him. I totally agree I’m not the right person to get in the middle. There’s just nobody else willing or able to.

> The family (not my wife) asked me to talk to my brother-in-law about this because nobody else could get through to him.

This is a very tough situation and I don't think it was any lack of skill on your part that made you unable to get through to your brother-in-law this time. I don't think the world's champion hostage negotiator could have done it on the first try.

I'm a little unclear on one aspect, though. You say your goal is to get your brother-in-law to allow your wife to talk to medical staff. But the family not your wife is asking you to talk to him? Yet they're not asking for anyone else, other than your wife, to be able to talk to medical staff? If there are aunts and uncles, presumably some of them are siblings of your father-in-law, as closely related as his children and with as much right to be involved in medical discussions as your wife has. Yet they're not trying to get themselves involved in the process? Only your wife?

(Also, as I commented elsewhere in the thread, if I were in your position, I would not want to take this on unless I was sure my wife was OK with it. I can totally see that she might just not want to have the discussion herself because of her history with her brother; I just would want to be sure that she was OK with what was being done.)

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#349

Post by cljs-js-eval »

treis wrote: post #329
skosch wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is addressed later in the article. The whole formula is: "3 numbers were inaccurate. I feel frustrated because I keep having to [deal with the consequences]. Would you be able to [double-check all calculations from now on]?"

I don't see the purpose in sharing that I'm frustrated. Is it supposed to make the recipient feel bad?

It's because NVC has taken away the natural way for people to express frustration, which is by being short with the other person.

Personally, I don't get it either. No one I'm frustrated with seems to understand that if I tell them in an unhurried, matter-of-fact way. They may say that they prefer me to express frustration that way, but it gets no results. I don't see the appeal.

Re: A guide to difficult conversations

#350

Post by marshray »

system2 wrote: post #339

While this looks very nice and fun to read, in the real world we deal with very emotional people. There are times I use these subconsciously when needed but I know there are many clients I dealt with would reject me the moment I start talking like this. I personally find people using NVC tactics very insincere. It is very obvious they are using some "you can't use this sentence against me later" tactics.

Sometimes what people really want is old-fashioned give-and-take, or to engage you in open conflict.

When you make it clear by your actions you're not interested in that game, it will throw them off balance. Not many people are prepared for this and the only tactic they know is to escalate. "You're being an insincere prick" is all they've got.

The key is that you know that you, yourself are sincerely open to making a connection, and you go the extra mile to avoid condescension. At a basic level, you are indeed pushing them to confront something about their own feelings that they'd rather not deal with at that moment.

Sometimes folks just don't want to connect with you when they're feeling vulnerable, and the best you can do is let them know that you're safe to be vulnerable around by respecting that.

Post reply on HN