Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the Big 4 in this context? Generally that term applies to accounting firms (PWC, E&Y etc.)
Google, Amazon, Facebook, or Apple. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Four_tech_companies
ibm, microsoft, dell, hp
Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
181–190 of 269 posts
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#182Two additional pieces of information would be necessary to know if the author got a good deal:
1) How long was he there before he cashed out? (The amount of equity isn't just about the grant, it's about whether you stay for the vesting...) 2) What stage was the startup at when he joined? Yes, I know he was engineer no. 10 and employee no. 15. Many startups in the Bay Area are post-Series A by the time they have 15 employees. A lot of the risk is already gone by then, so the equity grants are less.
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#183The problem is there is very, very little equity given to early employees. I went to one of YC's "work at a startup" events and Sam Altman himself got on stage and called out basically every company there for this very issue (assuming I interpreted him correctly). I looked into joining several startups as employee #1, both at this event, on AngelList, and by talking to random people who cold emailed me -- and it seem…
Heh. I have had a similar experience with AngelList except the offer was 0.5% and no salary — "it's standard".
That didn't last long.
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
8% return on average is abnormally high. But, on the other hand - the chance of retaining even 1% of a startup that exits for >50M is very small. By the time of an exit, almost no engineers will have anywhere near that equity.
After accounting for inflation and dividends, 7% is average (historically) for annual returns. So only a little high. If the parent was not accounting for inflation, 8% is low.
I see the 7% return figure trotted out as average equity returns; but I think that number reflects a lot of “easy money” from the asymmetry of global industrialization in the post-WW2 era. Europe and America spent the 1920s through 1940s building fossil fuel powered heavy industry through a couple of particularly destructive wars. Then we spent the next 50 years spreading it around the globe, with American and European companies collecting a vast majority of the profits.
I’m not entirely sure it’s an assumption that will be correct for too much longer given the industrialization around the globe has increased competition significantly.
I think the true equity growth rate is closer to inflation / population growth rate; especially once we take the costs of climate change into account (think of it as a loan we have to pay back in either remediation of adverse climate effects or decreased future productivity).
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#185> In my experience, the deadline-driven culture crushes any scope for creativity and experimentation. This is true anywhere. It's amplified in a startup because you can't switch teams or move around to get on an innovation driven team, it will also have a much bigger affect. If you only focus on deadlines, developers (by necessity) start taking short cuts and laying code that pushes boundaries less. If they get punis…
I think it is in the nature of risk that you get punished if you end up on the losing side of it, no?
That's a cultural thing. Losing a risk doesn't require punishment, unless you consider not getting the reward a punishment. You can just reward winners and otherwise not punish the others.
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
For my dad, a psychiatrist, running a private practice netted him around $400,000 yearly.
Don't doctors in the US have massive malpractice insurance to pay? I heard it was 6 figures. Got family who are docs there.
> Don't doctors in the US have massive malpractice insurance to pay?
Depends a lot on specialty, but apparently within some specialties there's almost a 10× range of annual costs.
> I heard it was 6 figures.
For the highest cost specialty (OB/GYN), near or into the six figures range is right by the first source I find, and surgery specialities seem potentially to be in that range. Others much lower, down as low as four figures.
https://www.capson.com/medical-malpractice-insurance-by-spec...
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#187I was employee 40, and approximately 15th engineer of a YC startup where the founders made roughly $50M each, and I made just under $80,000. During this time, had I gone to work at a FANG, I would have probably made a few million dollars just from being a senior software engineer. I have another friend who has been at 3 startups during this time and deeply regrets leaving his FANG job because he also missed out on mi…
I was employee 40, and approximately 15th engineer of a YC startup where the founders made roughly $50M each, and I made just under $80,000.
Wow. Employee 40 is still an early employee, but apparently not when it comes to equity.
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#188The comp packages at big tech companies are becoming insane. In Seattle it's not unreasonable for a senior software engineer with some good connections to be making 200-250k. With that comes life insurance, health insurance for your whole family, disability insurance, etc. That's more in cash AND benefits than a doctor.
Doctors make significantly more than that. Double that at minimum for a successful doctor.
Physician income varies widely based on specialty. Family medicine can be paying in the $200K's while a skilled surgeon with their own practice can be $1M+.
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#189I was employee 40, and approximately 15th engineer of a YC startup where the founders made roughly $50M each, and I made just under $80,000. During this time, had I gone to work at a FANG, I would have probably made a few million dollars just from being a senior software engineer. I have another friend who has been at 3 startups during this time and deeply regrets leaving his FANG job because he also missed out on mi…
I thought Sam Altman said that he thought that startups should be giving more equity to employees.
Re: Working for a startup makes less sense, unless you are into the mission
#190>In my experience, it’s harder to have any visible growth in a startup because well first, what do you grow to? There is no clear hierarchy, no promotion paths. The “no titles” thing is great in theory but unless you have a naturally dominating personality, it likely won't work for you.
That's because you're basing growth on titles instead of actual capability.