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Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

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Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#71

Post by gamblor956 »

moosey wrote: post #34

> In order for him to clear his debts, Kong argues, he needs to be able to succeed at his new business – but that is hard to do if prospective partners and customers shun him because of his official status as a “deadbeat.” This is awful. Totally admit it, they shouldn't do it, etc. About the same as being a released felon in the United States. We also allow financial information to be pulled for background checks in…

Not even remotely similar. China's rating system is government-mandated.

In the US, the credit rating system is a creature of, and controlled by, the market. The US imposes very weak regulation on the credit ratings companies for individuals, and almost none at all on the credit ratings companies for businesses.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#72

Post by pdonis »

btrettel wrote: post #70
maratd wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you like to bike. Bikes don't go 60 miles an hour, which is necessary for some individuals who work an hour or more from their residence. And no, people don't do that sort of thing because they enjoy it. They do it because they have to. Please don't ruin people's lives with your ideas.

> Bikes don't go 60 miles an hour, which is necessary for some individuals who work an hour or more from their residence. And no, people don't do that sort of thing because they enjoy it. They do it because they have to. Please don't ruin people's lives with your ideas. Reread my post, as I don't think you're responding to what I wrote. I don't advocate taking away someone's license because of debts, which I believe…

First you said it "could help", then you said it was "net counterproductive". Which is it?

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#73

Post by btrettel »

pdonis wrote: post #72
btrettel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bikes don't go 60 miles an hour, which is necessary for some individuals who work an hour or more from their residence. And no, people don't do that sort of thing because they enjoy it. They do it because they have to. Please don't ruin people's lives with your ideas. Reread my post, as I don't think you're responding to what I wrote. I don't advocate taking away someone's license because of debts, which I believe…

First you said it "could help", then you said it was "net counterproductive". Which is it?

Both. There are multiple factors here. Reducing transportation costs is one factor (what I meant by "could help"), but typically one's income reduces even more, so on net it is counterproductive. I'll edit the post to be more clear.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#74

Post by pdonis »

moosey wrote: post #63
andreilys wrote: post #48

Anytime a criticism of China's social credit score is brought up, there's always a "yeah but US credit score", yet I still don't understand how the two are even in the same ballpark. The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. To compare the two is disingenuous and reaks of whataboutism

But do you deny that felons have the same issue? How many felons do we have today that were punished by non-violent drug crimes, by design as far as I can tell. As a US citizen, I don't believe that pointing out my own faults is "whataboutism". It is self-criticism. "Whataboutism" is a defense. I am not defending China, what they are doing is awful, and we should work to make sure that the systems that we have in our…

> How many felons do we have today that were punished by non-violent drug crimes, by design as far as I can tell.

Yes, but the fix for this problem is not to stop allowing people to consider a past felony conviction when determining what sort of business to do with a person. The fix for this problem is to stop criminalizing things that shouldn't be criminalized, like non-violent possession or use of drugs.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#75

Post by vetrom »

godelski wrote: post #67
r00fus wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US had the social credit system up and running for years before China did. You can think of China's currently state of totalitarianism as a metastasis of what started in the US.

What's the US's social credit system? I mean the social part.

Credit score bureaus. A surprising array of services and accessibility is tied to the credit score.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#76

Post by ordu »

massivecali wrote: post #45
AmVess wrote: post #32

USA is heading down this road, too. 21 states will suspend your driver's license if you fall behind on student debt. This is ass backwards and destructive thinking. I am certain this is just the start of greater restrictions on the unfortunate.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

> As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right".

In a country made for a car drivers it seems like a kind of an essential privilege.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#77

Post by massivecali »

ordu wrote: post #76
massivecali wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

> As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". In a country made for a car drivers it seems like a kind of an essential privilege.

That was my point. As someone who walks a lot, there are also large parts of the US that are wholly inaccessible by foot.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#78

Post by Animats »

"One creditor said the company was a sham from the beginning, with fabricated expenditure and cooked books."

Looks like the system is working.

If "barred from participation in the securities markets" by the SEC meant flying in coach and no landing slots for private aircraft, it might have more effect.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#79

Post by seanmcdirmid »

justaguyhere wrote: post #13
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way would you boycott China? Refuse to buy or use products made there? How likely do you think this could scale to an impact that would meaningfully impact China's trade? And as horrible as I think the social credit system is, there's an interesting question, as people who don't live in China, what business it is of ours (except, perhaps, as a cautionary tale)?

In what way would you boycott China? This doesn't seem that easy - after all, most products in western super markets are made in China. Maybe people can stop traveling to China, but that wouldn't make a difference big enough for the Chinese ruling class to care. But why restrict this question to China (though this particular article is about China)? Why not Saudi Arabia, for example? as people who don't live in China…

> This doesn't seem that easy - after all, most products in western super markets are made in China.

That is most definitely not the case, almost all of our groceries and soft goods (that supermarkets sell) come from domestic or nearby foreign sources. Perhaps you meant hypermarkets or discount department stores like Walmart?

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#80

Post by pmart123 »

massivecali wrote: post #45
AmVess wrote: post #32

USA is heading down this road, too. 21 states will suspend your driver's license if you fall behind on student debt. This is ass backwards and destructive thinking. I am certain this is just the start of greater restrictions on the unfortunate.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

Wow, that’s crazy. As long as you have auto insurance and a clean driving record, it doesn’t make logical sense to reprimand your license as it could cause a cash flow problem if you can’t commute to work, or have to take a worse job potentially.
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