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Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

sucky.ninja

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Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#371

Post by munk-a »

cooper12 wrote: post #261
munk-a wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is slightly different though, twitter is silly and unnecessary - access to your money is not. During some of the recent shows highlighting issues with payday lending these sorts of strategic delays were mentioned in the light that they can cause irregularly paid workers to have problems actually getting money out of their paycheck - forcing them into more borrowing until they are able to clear their checks. Agai…

> twitter is just silliness It was one of the premier sources for propaganda during a certain country's recent election. It has been used to coordinate protests. It's been used to break national news. You can get minute-by-minute updates of events from it. Let's not pretend that one of the world's most-used communication platforms doesn't play a huge role in modern discourse.

Actually this^ I'm not certain why it was downvoted but I had forgotten to take the Arab Spring into account and Egyptians organizing on twitter around the internet ban. Both have had... outcomes. But they were clearly necessary actions and twitter did help fuel that occurrence.

To contrast though, if a service being a premier source of propaganda (avoiding the question of this specific case since... politics) and offers no other value, then it's actually worse than trivial it's harmful.

So, it's a mixed bag. I still wish there was a better engineered platform than twitter out there though.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#372

Post by zrobotics »

nothal wrote: post #316
coldtea wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you say the same about your phone number? No. > If not, why? Because a phone is a universal method of communication, for businesses, spouses, families, friends, and everything in between. Twitter is yet another social media gossip discussion site, just one with a gimmick (limited characters). > If I run my business on Twitter (or YouTube, or Facebook) is it that different from a bank? The only businesses run…

FWIW, there are far more businesses on social media than that. There’s an entire culture of chefs, makeup artists, and the like that advertises solely on twitter/instagram/etc. Social media is actually a really effective tool to reach your target audience in these cases.

>> chefs, makeup artists, and the like

Isn't that covered under "influencers"? What tangible benefit does Twitter provide to a working makeup artist (ie someone doing makeup for films/tv/photography/etc)? Sure, there are makeup artists that run businesses on Twitter, but their business is selling branded makeup and promoting sponsored products. That type of business is 100% reliant in social media, but aside from influencers are there any working professionals that would be unemployed without Twitter or Instagram?

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#373

Post by anigbrowl »

identity-haver wrote: post #366
lmm wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The value proposition for me is receiving targeted news/information disseminated in a convenient format. As a concrete example, I'm crewing/pacing at a 100 mile trail run in two weeks, and I'm subscribed to that event's twitter feed. It's the Umstead 100 in case you are curious (@Umstead100). During the event, it will tweet out news and updates of interest to participants, volunteers, and others. > Yes, they could…

I've heard that even if you flip the "algorithmic timeline" switch off, you still don't see a linear feed of everyone you're following. It's still filtered and manipulated, just closer to linear. Speaking of design decisions, here's a bit [1] about how the "quote tweet" encourages the behavior of "dunking", a usage I have only ever heard in regards to Twitter. Basically, if anyone with a Twitter account says somethin…

the "quote tweet" encourages the behavior of "dunking"

Quoting people to negate or mock their argument has been around since Usenet - well, much longer in literary terms but I'm citing Usenet as an example of a system that's almost real-time and where it can be a spontaneous emotionally driven decision. It may not be called 'dunking' on every platform but the phenomenon is universal.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#374

Post by lima »

anigbrowl wrote: post #147
lima wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sad but true. At the hosting company I work for, we had to start requiring phone numbers for cloud servers due to a massive wave of abuse. It's one of the few roadblocks that helps at least somewhat. Previously, we didn't even require a full name. A few idiots always ruin it for everyone.

A few idiots always ruin it for everyone. Bad attitude. They're not idiots, they're abusers. Ruining it for everyone else is a feature, not a bug, although if they have been using a platform successfully they may be sad about their scope for abuse being curtailed. Also, consider that punishing everyone because of the actions of a few is the overreaction of someone who isn't willing to understand the problem and just…

How would you solve hosting fraud, then?

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#375

Post by inopinatus »

Sylamore wrote: post #254
inopinatus wrote: post #80

We're going this way as well (requiring & verifying phone numbers, not locking accounts). We don't have a problem with bots, but users in the "not so tech savvy" segment tend to switch/discard/forget their email address. Rather than try to recover their account with us, this group will subsequently just create a new one, and then wonder & complain that their profiles/settings/content/histories aren't carried over. We…

Please don't: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/03/why-phone-numbers-stink-...

For the use case I described, that article actually confirms our direction.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#376

Post by inopinatus »

justtopost wrote: post #350
inopinatus wrote: post #80

We're going this way as well (requiring & verifying phone numbers, not locking accounts). We don't have a problem with bots, but users in the "not so tech savvy" segment tend to switch/discard/forget their email address. Rather than try to recover their account with us, this group will subsequently just create a new one, and then wonder & complain that their profiles/settings/content/histories aren't carried over. We…

What service of yours am I avoiding now? Phone numbers are terrible pii for reasons enumerated here and countless other posts. Why on earth would you do that?

In order to call you if there’s a problem.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#377

Post by anigbrowl »

syshum wrote: post #313
anigbrowl wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having to provide a phone number isn't mass censorship. Twitter is hurting their own brand by their obvious political bias and selective enforcement of rules largely dependent on outrage mobs to "report" rule violations. Like real names policies before it, these types of "verification" scheme do little to curb actual abuse, and in many cases shuts out moderate voices Guess what, I just reported a guy with 106k follow…

Nice strawman you made there You know full well that is not the type of reporting that I was talking about. There are outrage mobs mass reporting people over jokes, things they find "offensive", and hurt feeling.

Oh, but you were being totally sincere when you took my comment about 'epidemic abuse by trolls' and complained that such terms were 'MASSIVELY over used to the point where people call anyone that disagrees with them "a troll" or a bot.'

I don't care what you were talking about. I was clarifying what I had been talking about before you came along and attempted to change the subject.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#378

Post by CamperBob2 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #349
CamperBob2 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How else would you suggest they combat spam? Disable the account temporarily when some (small) number of other users flags its posts as spam. If a user is discovered to be filing false spam reports, disable that account. Accounts without a history of posting legitimate tweets should be rate-limited in both their posting and reporting privileges. Externalizing the costs of fighting spam and "propaganda" (whatever that…

> Disable the account temporarily when some (small) number of other users flags its posts as spam... I'm not sure you're really hearing us. The advertisers don't want their ads connected to spam or propaganda posts AT ALL . If Twitter actually shows the post, and then has ads along side it, it's too late. I mean it's great that someone bothers to flag that post as spam, but the advertiser's Twitter firehose processor…

The advertisers don't want their ads connected to spam or propaganda posts AT ALL

Then they will need to get used to disappointment, just like the rest of us. What they're asking for -- and what Twitter is promising -- is not reasonably achievable without fundamentally changing the nature of the service.

Today they are in that situation several hundred times per week.

TWTR has a $25 billion market cap, which they achieved with their current terms of service. I'm sure I have a violin small enough to play for them around here somewhere, but my scanning electron microscope is in the shop.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#379

Post by mbesto »

inopinatus wrote: post #121
mbesto wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turns out that phone numbers, whilst also subject to flux, have better long-term congruence to identity, and thereby help us to detect account duplication and manage it. What service do you offer? Because I would never give a company where I wasn't paying for the service my phone number. How do you guarantee you won't misuse it or have ample protections in case of a breach?

We're a two-sided network for sports competition management and work with athletes, clubs, associations, and governing bodies. Users pay real money for our services, we don't carry ads or even tracking pixels, and our privacy policy details exactly how, when and to whom PII is disclosed. The broader point is that collection of phone number isn't intrinsically a bad thing, it's rather the usage and trust level that ma…

> our privacy policy details exactly how, when and to whom PII is disclosed.

And it's your right to simply change that privacy policy whenever you see fit, and you still have my phone number. There is nothing legally and systemically that revokes your right to that.

> The broader point is that collection of phone number isn't intrinsically a bad thing

It's intrinsically a bad thing because our general trust model is simply fragmented and thus poor. See my point above.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#380

Post by inopinatus »

mbesto wrote: post #379
inopinatus wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're a two-sided network for sports competition management and work with athletes, clubs, associations, and governing bodies. Users pay real money for our services, we don't carry ads or even tracking pixels, and our privacy policy details exactly how, when and to whom PII is disclosed. The broader point is that collection of phone number isn't intrinsically a bad thing, it's rather the usage and trust level that ma…

> our privacy policy details exactly how, when and to whom PII is disclosed. And it's your right to simply change that privacy policy whenever you see fit, and you still have my phone number. There is nothing legally and systemically that revokes your right to that. > The broader point is that collection of phone number isn't intrinsically a bad thing It's intrinsically a bad thing because our general trust model is…

We might want to call you if there’s a problem with your account e.g. a failed payment.

This overwrought paranoia and worst-case-scenario scaremongering just leads to bad customer service.

If you’re not a customer then I neither need nor want your contact details.

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