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European Parliament approves copyright reform

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Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so when you disagree, people voted for lies? But when you agree then it’s the will of the people?

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it." N Farage, May 2016.

You seem to have misinterpreted me. I was not speaking to the finality of the Brexit vote (and I agree that a roughly 50/50 split is not a mandate), but to the tactic of attempting to invalidate your political opponents by claiming that they were duped or hoodwinked into voting the way they did. It's incredibly patronizing (in addition to being illogical).

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#632
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well. He is seen as right-wing in france (i.e close to the money). Average older citizen do like people who will protect their rent system and who seems to add stability, that's why they voted for him. Wheras most of my non-economically challenged younger friends prefer a bit of chaos and a high-ish inflation, and did not.

He is currently considered left-wing when compared to neonazis and white separatists, though. A lot of people (including neonazis and white separatists) currently think of the left-right continuum as being extreme left (think racism, sexism, and homophobia are really bad) -> center (don't care about politics) -> extreme right (think racism, sexism, and homophobia are really good.) Being somewhere in between entails o…

The percentage of the population who is a neo-Nazi and let alone white separatists is negligible. Why is everyone obsessed with them nowadays?

And why are you including me in that group (since you said only neo-Nazis believe Macron is left-wing).

That's extremely weird.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#633
post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really? This isn't a flat 'you need to pay 10k a yr regardless of your size' imposition. Proportionality is important. The problem is the proportionality requirements are poorly designed. It would be one thing if requirements increased solely with revenue, but increasing with time or user count is purely destructive. Plenty of small services will hit the time limit before they're big, and then the costs destroy…

>The problem is the proportionality requirements are poorly designed. I don't think this is the issue. The requirements aren't set out in detail, and will largely be fleshed out by the courts. This is where the reality of Art. 13 will be set - in the rulings which follow. Also, elements in a test don't react linearly in court judgements. Scaling from 100 users to 200 isn't going to suddenly mean that it's proportiona…

> The requirements aren't set out in detail, and will largely be fleshed out by the courts. This is where the reality of Art. 13 will be set - in the rulings which follow.

But that's part of the problem. It means a service you operate today is subject to a law that will be decided on tomorrow. So you either make the conservative choice, which is onerously expensive and may put you out of business immediately, or you risk being the case of first impression where the more cost effective choice you made is decided to be insufficient, and that too puts you out of business -- but only after you've dedicated years of your life to it.

> Also, elements in a test don't react linearly in court judgements. Scaling from 100 users to 200 isn't going to suddenly mean that it's proportional for you to implement Content ID from scratch or that an applicable fine doubles.

Users don't scale linearly either. Things have network effects. Side projects get posted to HN or similar and go from hundreds of users to hundreds of thousands in the course of an afternoon.

And again, just because you have a lot of users doesn't mean you make a lot of money. Your project may have had a million users for a decade, but if the revenue from those users is only just covering your hosting costs as it is, now you're out of business.

> I think most people can agree that the cut and dry abuse of copyright and copyright-adjacent systems should be penalized. But it is. Just not at the scale of individual content producers. If someone tried to extort you by placing false copystrikes on your work and you had proof, you would have a few torts or more general omnibus civil code provisions to use in most jurisdictions. But the cost and hassle of doing so might be higher than your expected return.

Which means that it isn't, because then nobody does that and there is no penalty for continuing to do it in practice. And the solution to that is quite straight forward -- make the penalty for a false claim sufficiently large, and the process for having it enforced sufficiently simple, that it justifies the victim in spending that amount of time to enforce the penalty.

Moreover, even the existing penalties are quite useless because the biggest problem isn't overtly fraudulent claims, it's the extremely high volume of false positives the claimants have no real incentive to reduce.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so when you disagree, people voted for lies? But when you agree then it’s the will of the people?

The lies told by the leave campaign has been extensively documented, including by courts. It's all a google search away.

Whether lies were spread on one side or another does not invalidate the fact that people showed up to the polls and cast votes.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not what I’m saying. Rather it’s a problem that “democratic” is largely an unhelpful term which obscures rather than reveals anything about a political system.

Only if you choose to ignore its actual meaning and insist on treating it as a buzzword.

You’re going in circles here. You define democracy in nebulous terms that have little or no bearing on any self-styled democracy since Ancient Greece. If that’s your standard for democracy, then of course the whole world falls short and this ceases to be an interesting or productive discussion for exactly the reasons I raised in my original post. Beyond giving a demonstration of just what I’ve come to expect and dread from political “discourse” here, is there anything else you’re going for?

If this boils down to Europe not being your idea of democratic now, and for the entirety of its history, then you’re making no point at all.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#636

> France’s current batch of national politicians have consistently advocated for the worst parts of the Directive, and the Macron administration may seek to grab an early win for the country’s media establishment. Macron is a crook. If any other president from any other civilized country would have sent the military to guard against its citizens' street protests [1] then that president would have been (rightly) calle…

> If any other president from any other civilized country would have sent the military to guard against its citizens' street protests [1] then that president would have been (rightly) called out the worst names Burning cars and breaking windows isn’t peaceful protest. If that happened in New York and the mayor and governor didn’t deploy armed guards, up to and including the National Guard, many people would be rightf…

> Burning cars and breaking windows isn’t peaceful protest.

Neither is burning people alive in Caracas, but that doesn't stop Macron from supporting the riots in Venezuela.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of European media sees their content stolen and re-uploaded by anonymous users on YT, FB, etc... FB in particular have not responded to this and thus content creators lose a lot of views and money. This video sums it up nicely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7tA3NNKF0Q

>and thus content creators lose a lot of views and money // I think this sort of reasoning is largely fallacious. Just because people view your stuff doesn't mean that if you're successful in locking it down that they'll then pay to view it. I feel the media companies know this and that's one reason they demand ever increasing copyright terms - to avoid older content eating in to current profits.

Just to add: Just because people view your stuff for free doesn't mean that won't entice them to pay for it later, or that they haven't already paid for it.

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#638
post #483
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU Elections are coming up. Vote for the pirate faction in your country or check who voted what and only vote for those parties that voted against A13 or if there are none, parties that are vocal against A13. Same goes for your countries own election cycle.

Let's be honest here, I have much bigger fish to fry. I like a free Internet, but it's low on my list of concerns, way below affordable housing, much stricter control of my country's borders, better support for entrepreneurs, more security and better police, etc. I'm not going to vote for a "pirate party" as if that was the most important thing in my life.

> way below affordable housing

CDU/EPP does not help with that

> much stricter control of my country's borders

Do I need to remind which party Merkel is from? CDU

> better support for entrepreneurs

If you're a big German industrialist you'll get all the help from them, anything else? Nah

Re: European Parliament approves copyright reform

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of European media sees their content stolen and re-uploaded by anonymous users on YT, FB, etc... FB in particular have not responded to this and thus content creators lose a lot of views and money. This video sums it up nicely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7tA3NNKF0Q

>and thus content creators lose a lot of views and money // I think this sort of reasoning is largely fallacious. Just because people view your stuff doesn't mean that if you're successful in locking it down that they'll then pay to view it. I feel the media companies know this and that's one reason they demand ever increasing copyright terms - to avoid older content eating in to current profits.

This isn't even about paying. People viewing videos you made on Youtube is already lost revenue, since none of the ads FB shows go to you. They only go to the person who stole your videos.

And be definition this can be seen as a loss since the viewing itself is the revenue generator.

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