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Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

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Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#31
post #7

What can the average founder, employee, and person do in the face of this news? I understand that it’s scary, but what can we do to turn that fear into an actionable checklist?

> What can the average founder, employee, and person do in the face of this news?

Make sure your finances are in reasonable order in case you get laid off:

* https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/commontopics

Not all economic downturns are as bad as the Great Recession was.

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#32

More practically, at least for those thinking of buying a home on a standard 30-yr fixed mortgage, since it seems like the consensus among investors is that interest rates for long-term debt will fall it makes little sense to buy anytime soon if you can wait... Or does it make sense to go with an adjustable rate mortgage instead?

Buy if you need/want to buy. Refinancing a mortgage after a rate decline is fairly easy and you’re likely to get a better purchase price in a (locally) high rate environment and carry that lower purchase price into your refinance. The diff in purchase price likely more than covers your refinance costs.

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#33
post #8

Simple explanation of what this means. Here are current yields on Treasury Bonds (expressed as an annualized rate)[0]: 1 Mo - 2.47 2 Mo - 2.47 3 Mo - 2.46 6 Mo - 2.49 1 Yr - 2.41 2 Yr - 2.26 3 Yr - 2.19 5 Yr - 2.21 7 Yr - 2.32 10 Yr - 2.43 20 Yr - 2.68 30 Yr - 2.87 In normal times, rates are higher for longer terms. This makes sense: the longer I tie up my money, the higher interest rate I'm going to want. However, r…

Thanks for this. Question: is there any rational reason an investor would invest in a 10-year bond when they could get a better interest rate on a six month bond? It seems like an inversion would result in near-zero long-term bond purchases.

[deleted]

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#34
The headline implies a claim that I don't see any support for: that degree of yield curve inversion is related to likelihood of recession. While that seems plausible, I've never seen analysis that being more inverted is a stronger predictor than simply being inverted at all.

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#35
post #8

Simple explanation of what this means. Here are current yields on Treasury Bonds (expressed as an annualized rate)[0]: 1 Mo - 2.47 2 Mo - 2.47 3 Mo - 2.46 6 Mo - 2.49 1 Yr - 2.41 2 Yr - 2.26 3 Yr - 2.19 5 Yr - 2.21 7 Yr - 2.32 10 Yr - 2.43 20 Yr - 2.68 30 Yr - 2.87 In normal times, rates are higher for longer terms. This makes sense: the longer I tie up my money, the higher interest rate I'm going to want. However, r…

Thanks for this. Question: is there any rational reason an investor would invest in a 10-year bond when they could get a better interest rate on a six month bond? It seems like an inversion would result in near-zero long-term bond purchases.

With a 10-year bond, the investor receives that interest rate over the whole 10 years. With a 6-month bond, the investor receives that interest rate only over these 6 months, and then has to find another bond to buy. If all available bonds then have a lower interest rate, the investor would have received more for the 10-year bond.

(What might be confusing at first is that interest rates are usually "annualized", that is, presented as if they were for a single whole year. You won't actually receive 2.49% of what you paid for the 6-month bond; you'll receive something like 1.24%, and you have to invest again for another 6 months to reach that 2.49%. If that investment is no longer available, you might not be able to do that.)

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#36
It should also be noted that there is a delay between and inversion and a recession, with an average of about a year:

* https://seekingalpha.com/article/4250934-yield-curve-inversi...

This means it will probably occur in the middle of next year's US presidential election. :)

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#37
This could also be a bet that the economy is still yet to improve, as in times of good economy the coupon rate has historically dramatically increased. To extrapolate, if the investor expects the economy to peak in 5 years, he would be incentivized to allocate capital into short-term investments such as equities and short term bonds as to defer longer-term investing until those bond yields reach their peak.

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#38

It should also be noted that there is a delay between and inversion and a recession, with an average of about a year: * https://seekingalpha.com/article/4250934-yield-curve-inversi... This means it will probably occur in the middle of next year's US presidential election. :)

> next year's US presidential election. :)

Any chance the US can extend its terms? An election seems to last an entire year and be one of the most toxic events possible online.

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#39

More practically, at least for those thinking of buying a home on a standard 30-yr fixed mortgage, since it seems like the consensus among investors is that interest rates for long-term debt will fall it makes little sense to buy anytime soon if you can wait... Or does it make sense to go with an adjustable rate mortgage instead?

"consensus among investors is that interest rates for long-term debt will fall" - could you elaborate on this? Are you suggesting e.g. the rate available for a 5 year fixed mortgage is expected to fall, or that rates will fall over the next 30 years?

Re: Yield Curve Is More Inverted Than at This Point in Run-Up to Financial Crisis

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, paying down debt would be a good idea. [sound of numerous economists jumping up and down saying this would turn prediction of recession into self-fulfilling prophecy] Also, holding off on any major new purchases like houses or new cars. [sound of foresaid economists moaning and putting their heads in their hands in despair]

> For example, paying down debt would be a good idea. Opposite from a financial standpoint: if interests rates lower in the future you will be able to refinance. From a job-vulnerability perspective it always lowers your risk though: better not to be very leveraged if your income can fluctuate.

You'll only be able to refinance if a bank is willing. If a recession is the driver of a fed rate reduction, that seems less plausible.
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