Apple announces Apple Card credit card • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#741

Post by sjwright » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 12:01 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #315

lemoncucumber wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mastercard and Visa are undoubtedly going to pull every lever at their disposal to take out Apple. The Apple card isn't competing with Mastercard and Visa -- in fact, it uses the Mastercard payment network. It's competing with credit cards issued by other banks on top of the MC and Visa payment networks (and AmEx/Discover, which unlike MC and Visa combine the payment network and card issuing). I doubt the other ban…

>I doubt the other banks are too afraid of Apple though, I didn't see anything so compelling about the Apple card that would cause it kill other credit cards. Interesting. I thought it offer fairly good Cash Back, no Fees, no hassle, ease of use. Even if it manage to reach 10% of the US iPhone users it will be a serious damage to other CC. While I may not get the best Rebate and Points when using Apple Card, I don't…

Apple hasn't patented cash back, no fees, or ease of use. The other banks are free to copy most of these ideas if they're prepared to.

Look at the personal finance scene in the UK—it's one of the more vibrant markets for banking right now with the likes of Monzo, Revolut, Monese, and countless others. Convenience and simplicity has prior art there.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#742

Post by baud147258 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 12:33 PM UTC

thecatspaw wrote: post #728

manfredo wrote: post #691

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Patreon has also banned various leftist sites for things like doxxing and posting instructions on how to commit terrorism, but that doesn't get as much attention for some reason. For left leaning people it takes doxxing and instructions on how to commit acts of mass violence to get banned. For the opposite ends of the political spectrum people have been banned for months-old videos - not even on a channel that the…

> For left leaning people it takes doxxing and instructions on how to commit acts of mass violence to get banned. It doesnt take that. But the far-left rarely insults people with racial slurs.

> But the far-left rarely insults people with racial slurs

No, they prefer to use words like nazi, facist *phobe, which most likely won't get anyone banned, expect the target of those insults

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#743

Post by baud147258 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 12:38 PM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #692

pryce wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deciding 'whether to do business with someone or not' is one of the kinds of freedoms capitalism is supposed to protect. Outside of a standard set of specific reasons for which it is agreed to be illegal to refuse business (race, sex, orientation etc..), no business is supposed to be able to be compelled -by the government- to associate or transact with another. Instead, boycotts are used by the public themselves (ra…

Where did I say that it should become legally mandated that MasterCard associate with anybody? Not only do I not think capitalism does/should compel them to do that, I think that capitalism explicitly doesn't compel anybody to do anything. What I'm asking is if we as a public really want our payment processors to be making these moral judgements? That doesn't mean I think they should be compelled to do anything, but…

> Where did I say that it should become legally mandated that MasterCard associate with anybody

I'm pretty sure that if you're in position of quasi-monopoly, it should be illegal

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#744

Post by baud147258 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:02 PM UTC

lol768 wrote: post #438

This is interesting to observe from the UK. - Cashback is generally lower here because interchange fees are regulated/capped to 0.3% for personal credit cards and 0.2% for personal debit cards. Offers of 2% cashback simply won't work outside the US so I'll be curious to see how (if?) they try and expand this globally. - "All of the spending tracking and other information is stored directly on the device, not Apple’s…

> "Apple also says that it’ll use machine learning and Apple Maps to label stores that you use in the app, and use that data to track purchases across categories like “food and drink” or “shopping.” " - I guess this is novel in the United States, but challenger banks like Monzo/Starling have been doing this for a number of years.

I've got the same services with BNP in France. I don't know how the data is computed/retrieved, though; maybe it's coming from manual tagging by users (since user can tag each individual payement).

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#745

Post by thecatspaw » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:08 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #742

thecatspaw wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For left leaning people it takes doxxing and instructions on how to commit acts of mass violence to get banned. It doesnt take that. But the far-left rarely insults people with racial slurs.

> But the far-left rarely insults people with racial slurs No, they prefer to use words like nazi, facist *phobe, which most likely won't get anyone banned, expect the target of those insults

True, and I do not condone these insults either.

Its just that coorporations are far more scared of beeing associated with the right, than the left.

Legally speaking you're not allowed to insult anyone, wether as a n-word, nor as a nazi

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#746

Post by baud147258 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 1:28 PM UTC

frenchie4111 wrote: post #580

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percentage fee is 1, for rewards necessary to get people to use the card and 2, to cover fraud which is actually a MASSIVE problem and 3, to cover defaults/payment issues. The per-transaction fee existed to cover the additional cost of building out the network (literally running cables and wires to the merchants' stores) and providing card readers. The network is already built and has been paid for THOUSANDS of t…

I have heard running a "cartel" a few times in this thread. I don't understand this term. Could you explain what you mean by that?

I'm pretty cartel has in English the same signification as in French

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#747

Post by acct1771 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:06 PM UTC

baud147258 wrote: post #743

ralusek wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did I say that it should become legally mandated that MasterCard associate with anybody? Not only do I not think capitalism does/should compel them to do that, I think that capitalism explicitly doesn't compel anybody to do anything. What I'm asking is if we as a public really want our payment processors to be making these moral judgements? That doesn't mean I think they should be compelled to do anything, but…

> Where did I say that it should become legally mandated that MasterCard associate with anybody I'm pretty sure that if you're in position of quasi-monopoly, it should be illegal

No, we just shouldn't let companies capture entire markets, we should break them up.

See: AT&T after "we" did, Microsoft after "we" didn't.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#748

Post by Tsiklon » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:11 PM UTC

lol768 wrote: post #438

This is interesting to observe from the UK. - Cashback is generally lower here because interchange fees are regulated/capped to 0.3% for personal credit cards and 0.2% for personal debit cards. Offers of 2% cashback simply won't work outside the US so I'll be curious to see how (if?) they try and expand this globally. - "All of the spending tracking and other information is stored directly on the device, not Apple’s…

I suppose when it comes to opening a line of credit - being able to sign up and have everything approved and ready to go in minutes (at a reasonable interest rate) is the differentiator here.

The products offered by Revolut, Monzo et al are debit accounts, when you open an account with them you're not opening a new line of credit. With a debit account I assume on the whole the level of risk which the bank takes on is significantly less than opening a new line of credit.

As for the features you mention I concur - these are all well established here in the UK.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#749

Post by newman314 » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 2:22 PM UTC

abalone wrote: post #640

For those of you concerned about the "antitrust" aspect here, the specter of Apple controlling everything... Keep in mind that Apple has had a partnership-based branded credit card for years : the Barclaycard Visa with Apple Rewards. There is nothing fundamentally new in Apple offering a credit card. What's new here is they're tightly integrating it with Apple Wallet and in some aspects driving a better deal (like el…

Does anyone know if the Apple Card is dependent on iCloud being enabled?

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#750

Post by kerbalspacepro » Tue, Mar 26, 2019, 3:58 PM UTC

ralph84 wrote: post #579

saryant wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Retail banking, especially credit, is much more regulated than the investment banking shenanigans that led to the 2008 crisis.

Retail banks were on the front lines making the liar loans that got everything started. Investment banks wouldn't have had any bogus mortgages to bet on without retail banks originating them. The decision to use GS is highly dilutive to Apple's brand.

I get that you're trying to tell a morality tale in order to determine who the bad guy is, but there wasn't "a bad guy" causing the last recession. "Retail banks were on the front lines making the liar lones".... and millions of creditless idiots were buying houses they couldn't afford.

You don't need the ball when the chain wraps around the whole world.