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Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

purpleleafsoftware.com

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Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#111

Post by cdf2theworld »

dragonwriter wrote: post #61
hedora wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, the law has been doing everything it can to make these problems worse. The DMCA outsourced due process for copyright infringement. SOSTA did it for illegal advertising (really, for policing morals, in general, but even the title of the bill agrees it was outsourcing sex trafficking law enforcement to private entities). The CLOUD act did it for illegal domestic searches and also foreign espionage. Caveat empto…

> The DMCA outsourced due process for copyright infringement. No, it didn't. What it did was protect online service providers from liability for either hosting or removing allegedly infringing content if they took certain action when notified of potential problems from either side (to the extent the results seem asymmetrical, it's because the pre-existing legal risk was asymmetrical.) > SOSTA did it for illegal adver…

Regarding the DMCA, I think you need to insert the word "intended" in there, in order to make it a try statement. The DMCA was intended to provide those protections... It has become a channel for baseless abuse.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#112

Post by mav3rick »

hayd wrote: post #107
Simple_Guy wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you started a really cool walled garden, invited everybody over, and they all enjoy it. Then you kick out a few trolls, and one of them thinks that the government should come in and forcibly allow the trolls back in. It's my garden, my choice. You are still allowed to publish your app on the web.

If you kicked out African Americans would you say it's your garden, your choice?

No because discrimination based on color is forbidden by the law. Discrimination on clearly set rules by the company that are not against fundamental laws is allowed. Also, your analogy is way off the mark. Comparing throwing of an app to racial discrimination weakens the very point you're trying to make.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#113

Post by supermatt »

btown wrote: post #21
KirinDave wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. I think in fact a lot of people do want them to do this. Folks complain the Play store is full of malware and spam, and that there are data leaks and deceptive ads. Then Google or Apple goes and removes them, and then folks are mad if that process has errors. It seems like a business where you make everyone mad no matter…

It is absolutely possible to do this without making people mad. The solution is simple: educated, intelligent customer service for developers. Heck, make them pay a developer subscription fee to make the customer service cost-neutral. Or make them pay a refundable deposit to escalate a situation for manual review by a trained developer, at the cost of a market salary for however long that developer would take to revi…

> The solution is simple: educated, intelligent customer service for developers

In reality, even uneducated stupid customer service would be better than the current state of affairs. And it's not just play store developers - these youtube takedowns, etc, costly people real money.

These large platforms are markets in their own right, and should be seen as such. They are simply too big to be covered by existing laws.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#114

Post by zahrc »

KirinDave wrote: post #11
echelon wrote: post #8

Can we sue Google when they do things like this? No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. Google and Apple wanted to be in the role of gatekeeper, so they should be beholden to the apps on their platform. We had a web where developers were in control of their own deployment. Everything was decentralized and required responsibility and diligence. Now the power is o…

> No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. I think in fact a lot of people do want them to do this. Folks complain the Play store is full of malware and spam, and that there are data leaks and deceptive ads. Then Google or Apple goes and removes them, and then folks are mad if that process has errors. It seems like a business where you make everyone mad no matter…

It’s a slippery slope for me, personally. I’ve been working in security quite some time, before that I’ve been in support and Helpdesk. (To give a little background on my anecdotal experience)

The sheer number of people who got infected with mal- and adware is disturbing and they demanded and believed that their provider or the device OEM is to be held responsible.

That’s not my evaluation of the situation, but the entry barrier for the web and its possibilities is very low, while the damage which can be done is pretty critical sometimes.

I personally don’t see any “everyone is pleased” solution, it’s a bit frustrating that the more tech-savvy folk is getting punished for straight out ignorance of the vast majority.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#115

Post by eridius »

cdf2theworld wrote: post #111
dragonwriter wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The DMCA outsourced due process for copyright infringement. No, it didn't. What it did was protect online service providers from liability for either hosting or removing allegedly infringing content if they took certain action when notified of potential problems from either side (to the extent the results seem asymmetrical, it's because the pre-existing legal risk was asymmetrical.) > SOSTA did it for illegal adver…

Regarding the DMCA, I think you need to insert the word "intended" in there, in order to make it a try statement. The DMCA was intended to provide those protections... It has become a channel for baseless abuse.

Most of the "baseless abuse" actually isn't DMCA, it's abuse of systems that services like YouTube set up to make it easy for copyright holders to submit takedowns without going through DMCA.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#116

Post by supermatt »

balls187 wrote: post #81
ams6110 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you can't sue them. Nobody has a right to publish apps on Google Play. They can be as arbitrary or incompetent as they like in what they do. As long as they aren't violating some protected class criteria, there's not much a court is going to do. Google hasn't taken away anything. There is still a web and you're free to deploy what you want there on your terms. (Edits to correct Google's autocorrect errors.)

(IANAL) You CAN sue them, but for what is unclear. "Wielding too much power" isn't a crime. And even if you could find a legitimate reason, you are unlikely to win. I would assume Google Play's Terms of Service has several clauses, including indemnity, arbitration, and agreement that Google can remove your app at anytime for any reason. Any of those should be sufficient to have the suit summarily dimissed.

Simply because the ToS says that, it doesn't mean it's a fair contract. Whether you win would depend on the jurisdiction.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#117

Post by ndnxhs »

Stuckinsofa wrote: post #104
ucaetano wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does, you can download an apk and install it on Android.

Don't you have to enable some kind of global special access right? So it's not the same thing.

Yes, and its super hard now. When I installed the new android version the only way I could get fdroid installed was flashing it as a system app in the recovery.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#118

Post by gmueckl »

balls187 wrote: post #81
ams6110 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you can't sue them. Nobody has a right to publish apps on Google Play. They can be as arbitrary or incompetent as they like in what they do. As long as they aren't violating some protected class criteria, there's not much a court is going to do. Google hasn't taken away anything. There is still a web and you're free to deploy what you want there on your terms. (Edits to correct Google's autocorrect errors.)

(IANAL) You CAN sue them, but for what is unclear. "Wielding too much power" isn't a crime. And even if you could find a legitimate reason, you are unlikely to win. I would assume Google Play's Terms of Service has several clauses, including indemnity, arbitration, and agreement that Google can remove your app at anytime for any reason. Any of those should be sufficient to have the suit summarily dimissed.

That may be true for the US - I don't know US law well enough to say anything there. In large parts of Europe, however, there are very generic rules about what constitute fair contracts and some terms like forced arbitration may not be valid there.

At the very least, it should be easier to involve lawyers and not get totally ignored by the other party. It's never pretty, but at least it is possible.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#119

Post by quickthrower2 »

From the blog comments:

> Good luck man. I had an app removed because someone did a review of it and their review had screenshots of my app and Google banned the app for copyright infringement siting them as the source. No appeal, one strike, never got through to a human.

If true that’s laughablly insane.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#120

Post by supermatt »

ucaetano wrote: post #35
echelon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

App stores are monopolies, and their governance leaves much to be desired (as is the subject of this article). I'm fine paying the AWS tax. It's a generic utility more or less and I can just as easily use Azure or Google (assuming you're not baked into certain offerings, but that's out of scope and honestly is a choice .) If you want on Android there's no choice. You play by Google's rules and pay their tax. People g…

> App stores are monopolies That is a huge claim, thrown around by you with no backing. You could get a few economists to discuss that for ages without reaching a conclusion. Unless you're talking about the layman's definition of monopoly, which means "whatever I want it to mean". This is particularly relevant when there's the Amazon app store, and app preloads, and the Korean app store, and Fortnite isn't available…

Is the market the common market, or is the android market? Is the commodity mobile apps, or android apps?

Google have absolute monopoly of android apps in the common market, and a monopoly of mobile apps in the android market.

The EU already ruled this http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-4581_en.htm

I really don't understand app-store apologists. Its abuse of dominance, plain and simple.

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