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Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

purpleleafsoftware.com

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Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#51

Post by ddingus »

echelon wrote: post #16
KirinDave wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. I think in fact a lot of people do want them to do this. Folks complain the Play store is full of malware and spam, and that there are data leaks and deceptive ads. Then Google or Apple goes and removes them, and then folks are mad if that process has errors. It seems like a business where you make everyone mad no matter…

> I think in fact a lot of people do want them to do this. I, the engineer, do not want them to do this. Before Google and Apple, I didn't have this problem. I didn't have to pay their tax or march to their beat. You might argue that it's their platform and that's the cost for us to pay. But it wasn't always this way! These companies leveraged their advantages to steal eyeballs away from an open web and lock them in…

Please, you engineer, do your best to make the app usable from a browser.

I dislike apps. Sometimes they make sense. Fine.

Often, they do not, or offer less functionality than PC or web does.

If you need payment, make that easy, same. Cancel easy too. Just because that is nice, and we all could use nice. You like nice, I like nice. Let us be nice.

If you need profanity, whatever, I get it. Let's be adults.

I don't like the gate keepers and do not trust them. I do not expect you to trust me, nor you me.

Clean, open, portable web for both of us as much as can be managed.

I support you, you support me, us.

I can be a user on linux, android, iOS, Windows, BSD, whatever I can get on the web.

Sometimes dependent stuff is needed for the job. I get it. Please try to avoid that stuff, and I will try and run more relevant systems.

:D

I really do avoid apps, really do try and be a good user, really do prefer web and really do run a bunch of OSes.

We both are rare. I do advocacy every chance I get. Maybe you can too.

Stick together in a figurative sense.

My development is small, embedded systems and or specific purpose programs. Enough to get the engineer speaking here.

Hopefully, you are a user enough to do similar things.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#52

Post by untangle »

echelon wrote: post #8

Can we sue Google when they do things like this? No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. Google and Apple wanted to be in the role of gatekeeper, so they should be beholden to the apps on their platform. We had a web where developers were in control of their own deployment. Everything was decentralized and required responsibility and diligence. Now the power is o…

> Can we sue Google when they do things like this? No single entity should wield this much power.

Of course you can. This is America and anybody can sue anybody for anything (with few exceptions).

Winning the suit is another matter. Unless you have smoking-gun evidence of discrimination or some such, I'd say the case would be DOA.

Of course, the costs of the suit would likely be prohibitive as well. I don't think that many lawyers would take a case like this on contingency. Maybe pro bono.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#53

Post by hrayr »

_jgvg wrote: post #36
echelon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think in fact a lot of people do want them to do this. I, the engineer, do not want them to do this. Before Google and Apple, I didn't have this problem. I didn't have to pay their tax or march to their beat. You might argue that it's their platform and that's the cost for us to pay. But it wasn't always this way! These companies leveraged their advantages to steal eyeballs away from an open web and lock them in…

> I, the engineer, do not want them to do this. You don't matter, consumers matter. > Before Google and Apple, I didn't have this problem. And you didn't have distribution either. > But it wasn't always this way! Indeed, there wasn't even distribution. Do you actually remember what was shipping mobile software back in 2005? > I want them to pay back the negative externalities they've leveraged onto us. Again, you as…

I don't entirely disagree with you, but what do we call the web if not distribution?

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#54

Post by dahfizz »

sverhagen wrote: post #48
ams6110 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you can't sue them. Nobody has a right to publish apps on Google Play. They can be as arbitrary or incompetent as they like in what they do. As long as they aren't violating some protected class criteria, there's not much a court is going to do. Google hasn't taken away anything. There is still a web and you're free to deploy what you want there on your terms. (Edits to correct Google's autocorrect errors.)

Didn't they take away the level playing field when they created the playing field?

It's real easy to contrive clever little gotchas in fluffy language talking about "playing fields" but what is it that you think they've done?

Even accepting your premise that there is no longer a "level playing field", there's no legal reason to expect Google to help you publish your app anyway. Hence they have not taken or vioated any rights you think you have.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#55

Post by dahfizz »

ams6110 wrote: post #50
sverhagen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't they take away the level playing field when they created the playing field?

They built a nice new field with a wall around it and guards at the gates. The old open field with all the weeds and litter is still there.

So your complaint is that Google produced a better product? Or are you implying that Google is poisoning all other ecosystems?

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#56

Post by KirinDave »

rjf72 wrote: post #49
KirinDave wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. I think in fact a lot of people do want them to do this. Folks complain the Play store is full of malware and spam, and that there are data leaks and deceptive ads. Then Google or Apple goes and removes them, and then folks are mad if that process has errors. It seems like a business where you make everyone mad no matter…

The problem and solution are one and the same. Google is trying to automate tasks that are nowhere near ready for automation. This doesn't even really make any sense either. You might argue its because they're huge, but the numbers don't add up. Google netted about $31 billion in 2018. It's hard to tell exactly how many apps are published on Google Play per year, but it seems to be in the ballpark of 200,000 [1]. Let…

Apple doesn't automate it and it's difficult to make a case that it's better. They've certainly made errors and bad decisions. So... I'm not sure automation is to blame.

What's more, you could make an argument that any process will have an observable error rate at scale. Would we be having a different conversation in a different universe where this same post exists, but Google didn't automate? I'm not so sure.

> Creating these jobs in the USA could be done for about $10/hour,

Uh, minimum wage is $15 in most places. $10/hr isn't even above the poverty line. It's less than $20k a year pre-tax. If you're appropriating the language of socialism, at least do it in a way that doesn't fall apart to someone with mental math skills.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#57

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

Terretta wrote: post #10
echelon wrote: post #8

Can we sue Google when they do things like this? No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. Google and Apple wanted to be in the role of gatekeeper, so they should be beholden to the apps on their platform. We had a web where developers were in control of their own deployment. Everything was decentralized and required responsibility and diligence. Now the power is o…

You know Apple initially wanted to make web “apps” a thing, you can still save html apps direct to home screen and run them offline to this day.

That was an excuse to have something on ship day because their iOS native API wasn't ready for public release.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#58

Post by dingo_bat »

ams6110 wrote: post #42
echelon wrote: post #8

Can we sue Google when they do things like this? No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. Google and Apple wanted to be in the role of gatekeeper, so they should be beholden to the apps on their platform. We had a web where developers were in control of their own deployment. Everything was decentralized and required responsibility and diligence. Now the power is o…

No you can't sue them. Nobody has a right to publish apps on Google Play. They can be as arbitrary or incompetent as they like in what they do. As long as they aren't violating some protected class criteria, there's not much a court is going to do. Google hasn't taken away anything. There is still a web and you're free to deploy what you want there on your terms. (Edits to correct Google's autocorrect errors.)

> There is still a web and you're free to deploy what you want there on your terms.

Except if you publish something Google disagrees with. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/08/1...

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#59

Post by hedora »

echelon wrote: post #8

Can we sue Google when they do things like this? No single entity should wield this much power. And we should rewrite the laws to make this so. Google and Apple wanted to be in the role of gatekeeper, so they should be beholden to the apps on their platform. We had a web where developers were in control of their own deployment. Everything was decentralized and required responsibility and diligence. Now the power is o…

So far, the law has been doing everything it can to make these problems worse.

The DMCA outsourced due process for copyright infringement.

SOSTA did it for illegal advertising (really, for policing morals, in general, but even the title of the bill agrees it was outsourcing sex trafficking law enforcement to private entities).

The CLOUD act did it for illegal domestic searches and also foreign espionage.

Caveat emptor — the big internet companies that lobbied so hard for these bills (or built businesses on them) got some short term platform lock-in, but they also guaranteed that their business models would be morally reprehensible moving forward.

We’re starting to see the fall out with Facebook, but they are not the only bad actor in this space.

Re: Google removed my ads-free app for “deceptive ads”

#60

Post by ucaetano »

hrayr wrote: post #53
_jgvg wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I, the engineer, do not want them to do this. You don't matter, consumers matter. > Before Google and Apple, I didn't have this problem. And you didn't have distribution either. > But it wasn't always this way! Indeed, there wasn't even distribution. Do you actually remember what was shipping mobile software back in 2005? > I want them to pay back the negative externalities they've leveraged onto us. Again, you as…

I don't entirely disagree with you, but what do we call the web if not distribution?

The web didn't disappear, quite the opposite.

Now you have the web AND the in-device app stores. Even more choice.

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