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Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

theatlantic.com

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Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#271
I've always felt this. College is the wrong place for most people. College is for nerds who want to learn and do research, and things like that. It isn't for someone who just wants to get a "real" job, nor it is really necessary. You can learn almost anything on the job.

Because people feel like it's a waste of time they're not going to classes to learn, and so it's simply a waste of time and money for most people.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#272
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If trade school were truly competitive with college and University in terms of offerings, I don't imagine the Escalator Mechanic program would require more time or work than our lower and middle-class could afford.

This would need everyone to make logical choices based upon the same info. We’re the only family I know that don’t mind if our children go into a trade. Our friends are horrified by the idea of their children not going to a university. My daughter is going to school to be an esthetician (skin care, beauty trade). In our market the ladies that do this make their own hours and make more than their husbands. There’s ple…

You bring up very good points.

I wonder if having more women in trade work would influence men to join.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#273

“Indeed, in the average study, senior year of college brings more than twice the pay increase of freshman, sophomore, and junior years combined. Unless colleges delay job training until the very end, signaling is practically the only explanation.” The author genuinely can’t conceptualize that people who fail out in the fourth year might, on average, have learned less in the first three? The line “practically the only…

That's his point.

The advantage of getting through the fourth and final year is the signal that it shows you are not one of those who did worse.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#274
post #96

Student here - I was struck by the "summer learning loss" quoted in the article. Everyone I talk to has this, myself included. The greatest reason for this, personally, is subject diffusion. This is especially true from freshman to junior year; we are required to take a dizzying number of classes that not only have nothing to do with our job field, but also have nothing to do with each other. I understand that it's i…

If there's "summer loss"? What about when you leave high school and college? What happened to the notes you took for your classes at the end of the semester? I suspect that they are thrown away and never seen again. I suspect part of the problem with education is that we don't learn how to learn, and that we done very little work on how to retain those skills and connect them to our world.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at. With the internet in it's current state, notes from college years 1&2 are useless... I could go on Wikipedia and YouTube and get the same, if not higher quality, information about those subjects. FWIW, I still have all of those notes. The understanding and intuitive development is what suffers, not having the information available.

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#275
post #211

Student here - I was struck by the "summer learning loss" quoted in the article. Everyone I talk to has this, myself included. The greatest reason for this, personally, is subject diffusion. This is especially true from freshman to junior year; we are required to take a dizzying number of classes that not only have nothing to do with our job field, but also have nothing to do with each other. I understand that it's i…

Here's the way I look at it: learning loss is almost inevitable, but I think it's less of a problem than it appears. What I think we should instead pay attention to is the rate of re-learning. Something may take significant time and effort to learn the first time, and after say a year or two, one may forget it. But when re-introduced to the concept (when you may actually need it), I think one can re-learn it quite ra…

Information loss is inevitable when that information isn't used enough to become inately retained. When we focus on a particular area of study, what we learn is self-reinforcing. If I study calculus and discrete math, my understanding and retention increases in each subject, because the overlap between them connects mental pathways. If I study calculus and eastern Asian religions, retention suffers because my brain cannot make meaningful connections between the two. This lack of coherence in what I'm learning means that I'm wasting my time with one of those subjects ;)

Re: Students don't seem to be getting much out of higher education (2018)

#276
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's "summer loss"? What about when you leave high school and college? What happened to the notes you took for your classes at the end of the semester? I suspect that they are thrown away and never seen again. I suspect part of the problem with education is that we don't learn how to learn, and that we done very little work on how to retain those skills and connect them to our world.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are getting at. With the internet in it's current state, notes from college years 1&2 are useless... I could go on Wikipedia and YouTube and get the same, if not higher quality, information about those subjects. FWIW, I still have all of those notes. The understanding and intuitive development is what suffers, not having the information available.

You do not develop understanding by merely looking up resources and reading about it.

Reading something alone will create not create fluency and understanding.

That is why we take notes. They serve both as records of what we learned, a learning tools, and a place to synthesize knowledge and understanding.

I also use wikipedia and lookup youtube videos, but I don't merely read or watch about it. I engage in an active process of learning and synthesizing information.

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