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Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

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Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#181

Post by sgwae »

Abundnce10 wrote: post #160
kovrik wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about fees? Not sure about US, but I think in NZ all credit cards with cashback have fees. And I remember there was a research or something concluding that you had to spend at least ~$3000 (don't remember exactly) per month using cashback credit card to break even. Also, credit cards are not accepted everywhere. And often there is a minimum transaction amount as well.

The Capital One Venture Rewards card gives me 2% back on all purchases (I'm in the US). It comes with a $60 per year fee. So, if I spend more than $3,000 on the card over the course of the year it's a net positive. Now, they have access to all of my purchase data but I get around $700 every year to spend on travel. I've weighed the costs/benefits and it's worth it to me.

Why not get the citi double cash, or fidelity 2% back with no annual fee?

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#182

Post by zeckalpha »

GuB-42 wrote: post #168
billfruit wrote: post #109

One modern trick to earn a tiny bit of extra money: Use credit cards for buying/paying anything at all, never use debit cards or cash: Credit cards usually pay a small reward point for spends which can often be redeemed as a cash discount later, and also since the expenses go to the credit card, the cash in the savings account stay untouched till the day you make the credit card bill payment, which will keep earning…

This advice is specific to the US and maybe a few other countries. In most other countries, the general idea is that you should be saving money and a credit is the opposite of that. As a result, you are not likely to be offered more than "no fees" for your credit. Note that in many countries, debit cards are called "credit cards" and US-style credit cards don't exist.

Note, though, that debit and credit cards are named so from the position of the lender, not the cardholder.

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#183

Post by zeckalpha »

loudmax wrote: post #19
JeanMarcS wrote: post #8

> Young men starting in life should avoid running into debt. There is scarcely anything that drags a person down like debt. It is a slavish position to get in... Well, that put student debt in perspective no ?

Barnum himself spent much of his life in and out of debt. He was a great showman and many of the performances he arranged were extreme financial successes, but he was a profligate spender and he was always one disaster away from going deep into dept.

Sounds familiar to my modern ears. I wonder who Barnum would be today?

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#184

Post by lotsofpulp »

asynchronous13 wrote: post #166
zamfi wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not pointing this out to be pedantic, but because I think it's interesting: it was actually not by law that merchants were not allowed to offer different prices for cash vs. credit card purchase, it was by contract . That is to say, in the merchant agreement required to accept credit cards, merchants promised to the credit card companies that they would not charge users of credit cards more than cash payers. As a…

There are still laws at the state level in the US that make it illegal for a merchant to charge more for credit cards. I lived in Colorado when the law passed there. It was impressive marketing by the credit card companies under the guise of consumer protection. Sucks because most people fell for the propoganda and now it's law. Colo. Rev. Stat. §5-2-212 “(1) Except as otherwise provided in §§24-19.5-103 (3) and 29-1…

FTC clearly states merchants can offer discounts for cash other payment methods:

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/new...

>A PCN cannot stop you from offering your customers a discount or another incentive for using a certain method of payment, as long as you offer it to all your customers and disclose the offer clearly and conspicuously.

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#185

Post by tremendo »

Abundnce10 wrote: post #160
kovrik wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about fees? Not sure about US, but I think in NZ all credit cards with cashback have fees. And I remember there was a research or something concluding that you had to spend at least ~$3000 (don't remember exactly) per month using cashback credit card to break even. Also, credit cards are not accepted everywhere. And often there is a minimum transaction amount as well.

The Capital One Venture Rewards card gives me 2% back on all purchases (I'm in the US). It comes with a $60 per year fee. So, if I spend more than $3,000 on the card over the course of the year it's a net positive. Now, they have access to all of my purchase data but I get around $700 every year to spend on travel. I've weighed the costs/benefits and it's worth it to me.

to get $700 in rewards, you have to charge $35,000 on it, that's almost $3,000 monthly. I guess that would be doable if including rent and utilities (I doubt you can pay a mortgage with credit), but yes, more than the annual fee is definitely easy. Especially the first year in which you get the 50,000 bonus plus no fee.

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#186

Post by adventured »

wnevets wrote: post #36
msla wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course it’s difficult to get internet there, so how will the millennials make it? Difficult to get medical care and water out there, so how will the Boomers make it?

If it wasn't for the urban dwellers flyover usa's subsidizing water, electricity, mail delivery, telephone, etc they would have a very different about the free market.

The obvious counter to that is: without flyover country, the cities would all starve to death (rapidly) and would not have had the energy necessary to have been built in the first place. To say nothing of that the population foundations of most US cities were seeded thanks to people moving from more rural, agricultural-heavy regions. Labor imported from the more rural areas directly helped to build the cities over time (and that process of rural to urban continues today, albeit slower).

It has been a fair exchange in fact.

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#187

Post by wonderwonder »

derekp7 wrote: post #38
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also mortgages.

Are mortgages really debt though? Because even though you owe, you also own as much as you owe (except during a market downturn of course). Whereas debt for a depreciating asset (like a car, or most things that go on a credit card) are what I would consider "real" debt. In other words, keep your net debt low or non existent (when looking at a balance sheet).

Sure, you pay interest on the loan. By the time the loan is paid off you have generally paid well in excess of the original loan amount back to the lender. Borrow 100k at 4% for 30 years and at the end you have paid $171,870. Maybe the home appreciates at the same rate, maybe not. You are right in that it is better than credit card debt my a mile though.

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#188

Post by maccard »

telchar wrote: post #177
maccard wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every time that you buy things with your credit card the bank change the business a small fee, so in a way you are making the 'rich' more richer and the 'poor' more poorer. I used to work for a small "mom n pop" style computer store, and did the cash drops most days. My understanding was that the cash handling fees were roughly the same as the card fees. Arguably card processing was cheaper for us,and less error pr…

That's technically tax evasion, not avoidance. The former is illegal.

Apologies you're right. I'm unable to edit my previous messagr to fix it unfortunately

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#189

Post by princeofwands »

billfruit wrote: post #109

One modern trick to earn a tiny bit of extra money: Use credit cards for buying/paying anything at all, never use debit cards or cash: Credit cards usually pay a small reward point for spends which can often be redeemed as a cash discount later, and also since the expenses go to the credit card, the cash in the savings account stay untouched till the day you make the credit card bill payment, which will keep earning…

There is a psychological effect when spending money with credit cards. Spending physical cash hurts one the most, then debit cards, and credit cards cause the least hurt. It is very easy to overspend with credit cards, and leave the tab for future you to worry about.

Depending on how susceptible you are to such psychological tricks (and cashback is also a trick to make you spend more or hook you to the brand -- it is only offered because it is EV profitable to the bank), your advice may be neutralized or net negative for a large part of the population that lacks your strong self-discipline. One late fee and you wipe out all your profits (and your credit score).

Smart and risk-free to only spend what you've got ("pay as you go"), besides you help avoid a national credit crunch.

> Debt robs a man of his self-respect, and makes him almost despise himself. Grunting and groaning and working for what he has eaten up or worn out, and now when he is called upon to pay up, he has nothing to show for his money; this is properly termed “working for a dead horse.”

> It is all very well to say, “I have got trusted for sixty days, and if I don't have the money the creditor will think nothing about it.” There is no class of people in the world, who have such good memories as creditors. When the sixty days run out, you will have to pay. If you do not pay, you will break your promise, and probably resort to a falsehood. You may make some excuse or get in debt elsewhere to pay it, but that only involves you the deeper.

Re: Golden Rules for Making Money (1880)

#190

Post by nightski »

burlesona wrote: post #44
derekp7 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are mortgages really debt though? Because even though you owe, you also own as much as you owe (except during a market downturn of course). Whereas debt for a depreciating asset (like a car, or most things that go on a credit card) are what I would consider "real" debt. In other words, keep your net debt low or non existent (when looking at a balance sheet).

If you owned a house in 2008, I assure you, you'd feel that your mortgage was real debt. Or if you ever got laid off. Or if you ever got injured or severely sick and found yourself with shocking hospital bills. When life hits you with something like that, suddenly that monthly payment, and the risk of foreclosure, bankruptcy, and severely damaged credit, all looms large over your head like the Sword of Damocles. Yes…

The majority of what you said is true of renting also.
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