Live data from Hacker News

Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

sucky.ninja

151–160 of 393 posts

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#151

This is the new norm... expect all services to require phone numbers due to spam and propaganda.

I assume by "propaganda" what you mean is "deplatforming". Much easier to keep people who emit thoughtcrime off of your platform if they have to keep getting new mobile numbers each time they are banned.

or you know, algorithmically prevent their posts from showing up in front of people

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your only choice as individual user is to leave the platform. That's not even enough anymore. You also have to make sure that every one of your contacts do not upload their address book to conveniently find friends like you who may or may not be on the network. And that they don't tag you in images, events, etc. You're an entry in the Facebook database, whether you have or have had an active profile or not.

This is why you should block ads and trackers even if you're not a Facebook user. I have blocked all their domains in my hosts file also.

Would you mind sharing the hosts file for blocking FB and all of their domains? I've done this too in the past, but my list seems outdated for a while now.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#153
post #142

We're going this way as well (requiring & verifying phone numbers, not locking accounts). We don't have a problem with bots, but users in the "not so tech savvy" segment tend to switch/discard/forget their email address. Rather than try to recover their account with us, this group will subsequently just create a new one, and then wonder & complain that their profiles/settings/content/histories aren't carried over. We…

> Turns out that phone numbers, whilst also subject to flux, have better long-term congruence to identity I'm not sure this is actually true, at least in the long-term. Most people keep their phone number for a long time, but if they ever cancel their phone service, the number usually gets recycled and given to someone else (unlike an email, which almost never gets re-used). If you're storing any kind of sensitive da…

That's an interesting nuance and is the reason we can't/don't use phone number as the primary identity, and must be wary of it for account recovery, but we can and do safely use it (in conjunction with other factors) for duplicate account detection.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#154
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're a two-sided network for sports competition management and work with athletes, clubs, associations, and governing bodies. Users pay real money for our services, we don't carry ads or even tracking pixels, and our privacy policy details exactly how, when and to whom PII is disclosed. The broader point is that collection of phone number isn't intrinsically a bad thing, it's rather the usage and trust level that ma…

>The broader point is that collection of phone number isn't intrinsically a bad thing Phone numbers as usernames is intrinsically bad for user data security at the meta level. If a service requires a verified phone number to signup, it becomes a de-facto username. Let's say a fetish dating site is partially breached, and the usernames are emails. Now your let's say your database is fullly breached, with the usernames…

[deleted]

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#155
post #86

Linking pseudonyms from two different networks (in this case, Twitter and the phone system) together is a classic and serious privacy leak. It's far from clear exactly what information Twitter, in its longtime effort to combat spam, has already collected on its users. Throwing a phone number into the mix expands to range of activities that can be unambiguously tied to the same individual. Given that Twitter certainly…

Hasn't that battle been lost for a while now though? How many different services have linked phone numbers with email or some other handle? (Particularly for 2FA)

Quite many services require phone numbers. But services like reddit, GitHub, lobste.rs, or hacker news don't. Twitter has been in that list itself, but now is outside.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#156

My wife and I cancelled our phone services a while back to save money since we rarely if ever have to call anyone and just use messaging to keep in touch with each other and friends. What are people like us supposed to do? I do have a Google voice number, but I noticed one or two places recently that won't accept that anymore.

> I do have a Google voice number, but I noticed one or two places recently that won't accept that anymore. Mind sharing where? I've use my Google Voice number exclusively for 6 or 7 years now. Can't say I've ever ran into such a thing.

I don't remember honestly, but I was looking for a site to do my taxes when I saw the last one. I didn't finish signing up. It mentioned not supporting "voice over IP" numbers, or something to that effect. I wish I'd taken a screenshot.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#157
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? I'm not clear on what the real point of this question is - twitter is a terrible platform to use for actual communication. Their sorting by "relevance" can cause recent messages to get lost in the shuffle and randomly mess with your visibility. It may be you're considering twitter as a business in which to coordinate product sales, but I'll assume it's for customer relations management, many companies that have a…

You may dislike Twitter (I do) but it is a large thing that exists and appears to provide sufficient value to people that dismissing it as 'silliness' just sounds empty-headed and naive.

Instead of attacking the person who is making a fairly lengthy and supportable argument, and basing your stance on the notion of some nebulous value “people” find, maybe you could respond in kind? I have to say that I find myself in the camp of Twitter being silly, except when it’s being destructive. Instead of being dismissed as “empty-headed” I’d prefer some value proposition justifying the previous comparison to a phone number.

Twitter seems to be a rage factory and amplifier, a shitty blogging format, and very occasionally a way to twist the arm of recalcitrant customer service.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#158
post #55
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to ignore that this constrains abusers as much as it does legitimate users. Collective punishment in order to mitigate abuse by a few is the wrong way to go.

Easy to say until you're running a service that's a target of said abuse. Do you have a better solution? If you do, it'd be quickly adopted because no one likes adding unnecessary friction.

Invest in your content moderators and in tools to track and trace them. Very few firms seem to have any interest in how or why they are selected by abusers or in the dynamics of the abuse that takes place on their platform. People pointing out abuse are usually treated as an annoyance, when in fact they may have considerable knowledge about the bad actors exploiting the service.

A very low-cost approach suitable for a small firm would be that if someone is abusing your platform, you expose their account history.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#159

My wife and I cancelled our phone services a while back to save money since we rarely if ever have to call anyone and just use messaging to keep in touch with each other and friends. What are people like us supposed to do? I do have a Google voice number, but I noticed one or two places recently that won't accept that anymore.

If there are enough people like you, I'm sure they'll find some way to accommodate you. Maybe they will accept a scan of your passport or ask for a bank account number or some other piece of data that makes it at least a tiny bit harder to open an account.

> Maybe they will accept a scan of your passport

It won't be long before https://haveibeenpwned.com/ will let you type in your driver's license or passport number and tell you if a scan of it has been leaked.

Re: Twitter forces all new users to enter a valid phone number

#160
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're a two-sided network for sports competition management and work with athletes, clubs, associations, and governing bodies. Users pay real money for our services, we don't carry ads or even tracking pixels, and our privacy policy details exactly how, when and to whom PII is disclosed. The broader point is that collection of phone number isn't intrinsically a bad thing, it's rather the usage and trust level that ma…

>The broader point is that collection of phone number isn't intrinsically a bad thing Phone numbers as usernames is intrinsically bad for user data security at the meta level. If a service requires a verified phone number to signup, it becomes a de-facto username. Let's say a fetish dating site is partially breached, and the usernames are emails. Now your let's say your database is fullly breached, with the usernames…

That is a general problem even if the phone number is not the username and is not limited to phone numbers, but also any data that is referenceable by email addresses, which is to say almost every unit of PII in almost every online system that exists today.
Post reply on HN