More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies • Hacker News Board

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#131

Post by potta_coffee » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 10:53 PM UTC

strait wrote: post #113

majora2007 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I are almost to the point where all of our veggies are from our backyard. Fruit is a WIP as we have a few trees and bushes, but they take a few years to start producing. We both work full time and spend the weekends out in the yard harvesting/planning. With irrigation to water and a little planning, it becomes a passive hobby. I will say, I think you'll still need to buy stuff, like beans, broths, spices,…

Beans keep being mentioned on the list of things not worth growing, when in fact, I've grown all the beans I've ever needed in very little space. Also the nitrogen fixation in the roots is a significant benefit for growing high protein content beans in less soil. (The roots don't require such a far and wide area for nitrogen scavenging.)

There are plants that grown together can help preserve soil etc. Google the "Three Sisters".

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#132

Post by Alex3917 » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

chmln wrote: post #101

beenBoutIT wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, there has never been a case of mercury toxicity from normal consumption of commercial seafood recorded in any American medical journal. These larger species you mention could exist outside of that sphere.

I would bet that mercury toxicity is incredibly underdiagnosed, especially if it's not acute. Fatigue, insomnia, and a host of other symptoms are fairly common and not easy to spot as a part of a bigger problem. Anecdata: when I went to a large hospital they laughed off my idea that I have heavy metal poisoning and didn't even have the facilities to test for it. Only months later after visiting a naturopath and getti…

It's actually common in startup founders who sell their startups and then start eating expensive sushi all the time. My understanding is that several billionaires in silicon valley have mild Parkinson's-like tremors because of this.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#133

Post by soared » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 10:56 PM UTC

chmln wrote: post #101

beenBoutIT wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, there has never been a case of mercury toxicity from normal consumption of commercial seafood recorded in any American medical journal. These larger species you mention could exist outside of that sphere.

I would bet that mercury toxicity is incredibly underdiagnosed, especially if it's not acute. Fatigue, insomnia, and a host of other symptoms are fairly common and not easy to spot as a part of a bigger problem. Anecdata: when I went to a large hospital they laughed off my idea that I have heavy metal poisoning and didn't even have the facilities to test for it. Only months later after visiting a naturopath and getti…

> Naturopathy or naturopathic medicine is a form of alternative medicine that employs an array of pseudoscientific practices branded as "natural", "non-invasive", and as promoting "self-healing". The ideology and methods of naturopathy are based on vitalism and folk medicine, rather than evidence-based medicine.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#134

Post by hombre_fatal » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 10:58 PM UTC

AndrewGaspar wrote: post #58

pagnol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has it been proven beyond doubt that we wouldn't be able to produce enough food without the use of pesticides?

We may be able to support our current population without pesticides (I don't know, I'm not really that immersed in the economics of it), but not without backsliding on the advances we've made against global poverty.

Of course, a pesticide-free market could exist alongside the status quo. The question is how much more expensive it would be. Mounting revelations like TFA are what drive demand for that.

However, I think consumer confusion is the main challenge for such a market. How many people already think buying organic = no pesticides? Or they see your pesticide-free marketing and think "my bases are already covered: I shop at Trader Joe's."

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#135

Post by strait » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 11:03 PM UTC

khawkins wrote: post #92

mtw wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know how to grow food, there's this project that will seed and take care of plants https://farm.bot From what I read, this produces enough veggies for a family of four all year round. Now producing beans, rice or wheat is another matter. I don't think its possible without moving to your own farm

Gonna call bullshit on that claim. I've seen estimates that an acre feeds 2-20 people. Assuming 20 people, that's roughly 2000 ft^2/person, which is 10 times bigger than the 200 ft^2 size of their larger model. Not going to believe packing plants close together is going to give an advantage of 40x more produce.

If the soil is rich enough and the growing season is long enough, then possibly, in that space, you could schedule growing enough salad vegetables and various root vegetables that a family would usually eat in a year. This is assuming that a fraction of their total calories would come from this source and most would continue coming from purchased grain products and meats.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#136

Post by fingerlocks » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 11:15 PM UTC

beenBoutIT wrote: post #41

fencepost wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what happens when you're effectively an apex predator - you eat the things that eat the things with contamination and much of it gets concentrated into you, particularly the things that bioaccumulate over time. Outside of pesticides but similar, that's why it's important to limit things like tuna consumption particularly from larger species that can build to high mercury levels.

IIRC, there has never been a case of mercury toxicity from normal consumption of commercial seafood recorded in any American medical journal. These larger species you mention could exist outside of that sphere.

My doctor claims to have treated several fishermen in the past for mercury toxicity. This doctor has been practicing in what was historically a “fishermen’s neighborhood” for some 30 years (Ballard area of Seattle) so it seemed plausible.

I have nothing but this weak anecdote to contribute to the discussion. But I’ll ask the doc for details next time I’m in and report back when the topic comes up again.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#137

Post by korethr » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 11:22 PM UTC

primroot wrote: post #111

korethr wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's another factor that I think the OP fails to account for and that's washing produce before cooking and consumption. It's a habit I've been in for as long as I can recall cooking with produce, which I probably picked up from my parents, and have seen in just about every kitchen I've been in. As far as I recall, it was less out of a concern over pesticide residue, but more to make sure all soil was removed from…

Ever heard of systemic pesticides? "Pesticides can be classified based upon their biological mechanism function or application method. Most pesticides work by poisoning pests. A systemic pesticide moves inside a plant following absorption by the plant. With insecticides and most fungicides, this movement is usually upward (through the xylem) and outward. Increased efficiency may be a result. Systemic insecticides, wh…

No, I had not. Today I learned a thing. Thank you.

Clearly systemic pesticides will need to be addressed differently from those which simply coat the crop and leave residues, but I remain confident that washing produce before cooking and consumption is enough to reduce the latter to safe levels.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#138

Post by thatcat » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 11:23 PM UTC

tracker1 wrote: post #127

thatcat wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is between the known interaction of chemicals that have existed for a considerable time as an agricultural product and synthetic chemicals that have unknown interactions.

Organic pesticides and their interactions aren't that well known... hell, all around the interactions of most of the foods people eat, gene expressions and even gut flora leave most data almost meaningless. Eat food you make from mostly whole sources, avoid sugars (especially refined), avoid grains (especially refined), avoid refined seed/vegetable oils... do those things and you're still doing better than most of th…

Toxicity and microbial selectivity are not the same. Whole food's positive biotic selectivity benefits could be negated by toxins present. I'm not really sure what "doing better" means bc it depends on the individual. Less likely to have endocrine disruption? Cancer risk? Better cardiovascular health? The optimal diet depends on your risk profile.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#139

Post by cogman10 » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 11:56 PM UTC

chmln wrote: post #101

beenBoutIT wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, there has never been a case of mercury toxicity from normal consumption of commercial seafood recorded in any American medical journal. These larger species you mention could exist outside of that sphere.

I would bet that mercury toxicity is incredibly underdiagnosed, especially if it's not acute. Fatigue, insomnia, and a host of other symptoms are fairly common and not easy to spot as a part of a bigger problem. Anecdata: when I went to a large hospital they laughed off my idea that I have heavy metal poisoning and didn't even have the facilities to test for it. Only months later after visiting a naturopath and getti…

https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/hea...

Naturopathy (like most pseudo sciences) thrives on taking things undiagnosed and giving concrete answers. There likely isn't a person out there that wouldn't test positive for heavy metal poisoning. Go retest with a different naturopath. I'm almost certain you'll still test positive (even though they likely gave you a bunch of vitamins and herbs to cure your poisoning).

> Fatigue, insomnia, and a host of other symptoms are fairly common and not easy to spot as a part of a bigger problem.

Fatigue and insomnia are depression symptoms. I'm not a doctor, but have you considered talking to a therapist?

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#140

Post by chmln » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 11:56 PM UTC

soared wrote: post #133

chmln wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would bet that mercury toxicity is incredibly underdiagnosed, especially if it's not acute. Fatigue, insomnia, and a host of other symptoms are fairly common and not easy to spot as a part of a bigger problem. Anecdata: when I went to a large hospital they laughed off my idea that I have heavy metal poisoning and didn't even have the facilities to test for it. Only months later after visiting a naturopath and getti…

> Naturopathy or naturopathic medicine is a form of alternative medicine that employs an array of pseudoscientific practices branded as "natural", "non-invasive", and as promoting "self-healing". The ideology and methods of naturopathy are based on vitalism and folk medicine, rather than evidence-based medicine.

This wasn't my experience. Where my family doctor and other practitioners ignored my thoughts and refused to get me tested out of personal skepticism, my ND listened to me and provided appropriate means of testing.

At no point was I suggested sketchy ancient 'healing' methods.