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Our Chess Champion Has a Home

nytimes.com

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Re: Our Chess Champion Has a Home

#81

Post by GrynetMolvin »

uptownfunk wrote: post #45

The real tragedy, in all of this, is the feeling of compulsion that these economically disadvantaged kids face to use their intellect to improve their financial situation. There was a kid in my statistical theory class who blew my mind with his raw brain power. Came from Nigeria, could have easily pursued a PhD from a top program. Perhaps gone on to do some great research. Where did he end up..? An actuary. Why? The…

Why are you assuming that academic research is necessarily more valuable and/or interesting than being an actuary (which can involve some really sophisticated stats)?

The big downside of the academy is that it's basically a zero-sum game. There's a limited pot of money, decided by the politics of the day, and all geniuses and near-geniuses are fighting for it. The added benefit of another smart person entering research is therefore limited.

However, in industry, including the insurance industry, a smart person can create more growth than existed before he/she entered. The added economic stability is not in conflict to this.

Re: Our Chess Champion Has a Home

#82

Post by rayiner »

hexane360 wrote: post #47
rayiner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was homeless because his family came over as refugees. That’s uniquely American because, for the most part, the rest of the developed world hasn’t accepted refugees and economic migrants at the rates the US has taken them. (Very recently that’s changed in places like Sweden, but it’s already causing those countries to go into right-wing coniptions.) But this kid was in a homeless shelter. That’s how most countries…

>the rest of the developed world hasn’t accepted refugees and economic migrants at the rates the US has taken them https://www.pewglobal.org/interactives/international-migrant... The U.S. is ~14% foreign born, as of 2017. That's below Norway, Germany, Ireland, Sweden, Austria, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Switzerland (and that's just the first world countries). It's one percentage point above the U.K. Expandin…

I said “refugees and economic migrants.” A quarter of the foreign born in Ireland are from the UK. 2/3 are from the rest of Europe (mostly the EU). I’m going to guess that these are mostly not refugees and economic migrants. Half of Sweden’s foreign born population, likewise, is European (with Finns being the largest group). And much of the balance is very recent—after Finns, the next two largest groups are Iraq and Syria (so likely they came here in the last 20 years). Contrast this to the US, where many people whose families came here as refugees and economic migrants are not “foreign born” because we’ve been accepting such immigration at high levels for more than a century.

Re: Our Chess Champion Has a Home

#83

Post by cyborgx7 »

syntaxing wrote: post #2

Say what you want about our country's current state but stories like this is what makes America great (minus the fact the kid and his family was homeless to begin with). It's not who you know but your talent (and some luck) that get's you recognized and can change your life. Sure, this sounds naive and a lot times, this doesn't play out. But these stories are still aspiring and reminds me of the American dream we onc…

Do people who have "talent (and some luck)" deserve a better live than other people?

Re: Our Chess Champion Has a Home

#84

Post by rjf72 »

reissbaker wrote: post #77
rjf72 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unbelievable this is getting downvoted, because it's 100% true and a very major problem in society. I've taught lots of young players and success or failure has 0 to do with intelligence. It's a matter of who can stay focused and actually do the work it takes to improve (which at that age/level is tactics tactics tactics). The second they "discover" social media or the endless stream or inanity on e.g. YouTube,…

I don't think there's a strong research-based link between the Flynn effect reversal and Internet usage, social media, or videogames; in fact, (correlative) evidence implies it's something else, because the Flynn effect reversal actually started in the mid-70s in some countries, long before videogames or the Internet (or its precursors) were widespread enough to cause mass societal impact. "Kids today" have always be…

Please do share what you're talking about regarding some sort of a reversal in the 70s. To my knowledge all declines, and certainly anything that could fairly be called widespread, began around the mid 90s. There was some isolated stagnation prior to then, but I'm not aware of any consistent and clear declines - the like of which we're now seeing.

As for wealth inequality, some of the first places the decline was clearly measured in are throughout Scandinavia. There is compulsory military service in various nations such as Finland and Norway, which also entails IQ testing with public data available - provides a nice massive sample. It goes without saying that these are some of the most egalitarian nations in the world by most metrics people strive for today, including wealth distribution. There has been no clear reversal of the Flynn effect in developing nations which, by contrast, tend to have dramatic levels of wealth (and other) inequality.

For another hypothesis that some may be thinking but not want to say, immigration is also controlled for in these studies. It's quite an interesting phenomena that may shape the future of our species far more than many of the issues we consider of otherwise critical importance.

Re: Our Chess Champion Has a Home

#85

Post by reissbaker »

rjf72 wrote: post #84
reissbaker wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's a strong research-based link between the Flynn effect reversal and Internet usage, social media, or videogames; in fact, (correlative) evidence implies it's something else, because the Flynn effect reversal actually started in the mid-70s in some countries, long before videogames or the Internet (or its precursors) were widespread enough to cause mass societal impact. "Kids today" have always be…

Please do share what you're talking about regarding some sort of a reversal in the 70s. To my knowledge all declines, and certainly anything that could fairly be called widespread, began around the mid 90s. There was some isolated stagnation prior to then, but I'm not aware of any consistent and clear declines - the like of which we're now seeing. As for wealth inequality, some of the first places the decline was cle…

In Denmark, the Flynn effect began declining (although didn't yet start reversing) as early as the 70s:

> Teasdale and Owen (2005) examined the results of IQ tests given to Danish male conscripts. Between 1959 and 1979 the gains were 3 points per decade. Between 1979 and 1989 the increase approached 2 IQ points. Between 1989 and 1998 the gain was about 1.3 points.

I don't think that trend of declining growth, shifting into the negatives recently, has much to do with something in the 90s; the decline started much earlier and has been fairly linear and consistent over time.

Edit: In addition, most of these measurements have been taken from people in their mid-to-late teens — meaning that whatever caused the decline presumably started at least a decade before the decline was measured. TL;DR: I'm not convinced that social media or any reasonably-modern changes are to blame: this dates back to the Boomers or perhaps even earlier.

Re: Our Chess Champion Has a Home

#86

Post by reissbaker »

reissbaker wrote: post #85
rjf72 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do share what you're talking about regarding some sort of a reversal in the 70s. To my knowledge all declines, and certainly anything that could fairly be called widespread, began around the mid 90s. There was some isolated stagnation prior to then, but I'm not aware of any consistent and clear declines - the like of which we're now seeing. As for wealth inequality, some of the first places the decline was cle…

In Denmark, the Flynn effect began declining (although didn't yet start reversing) as early as the 70s: > Teasdale and Owen (2005) examined the results of IQ tests given to Danish male conscripts. Between 1959 and 1979 the gains were 3 points per decade. Between 1979 and 1989 the increase approached 2 IQ points. Between 1989 and 1998 the gain was about 1.3 points. I don't think that trend of declining growth, shiftin…

Also, an article from Slate noting that in Norway, IQ scores began declining in 1975:

> What they found is that for Norwegians born between 1962 and 1975, IQs increased within each family by 0.26 points per year: Younger brothers had slightly higher scores than their older siblings, relative to expectations. (The researchers had to control for the more general fact that older siblings tend to have higher IQs than younger ones.) From 1975 until 1991, this tendency reversed, with test scores dropping by 0.33 points per year within each family.

https://slate.com/technology/2018/09/iq-scores-going-down-re...

Re: Our Chess Champion Has a Home

#87

Post by rjf72 »

reissbaker wrote: post #85
rjf72 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do share what you're talking about regarding some sort of a reversal in the 70s. To my knowledge all declines, and certainly anything that could fairly be called widespread, began around the mid 90s. There was some isolated stagnation prior to then, but I'm not aware of any consistent and clear declines - the like of which we're now seeing. As for wealth inequality, some of the first places the decline was cle…

In Denmark, the Flynn effect began declining (although didn't yet start reversing) as early as the 70s: > Teasdale and Owen (2005) examined the results of IQ tests given to Danish male conscripts. Between 1959 and 1979 the gains were 3 points per decade. Between 1979 and 1989 the increase approached 2 IQ points. Between 1989 and 1998 the gain was about 1.3 points. I don't think that trend of declining growth, shiftin…

This is misunderstanding the point. The issue is not IQ scores are not increasing less rapidly - they are now decreasing!

Increases asymptotically approaching something near 0 would be completely expected. To understand why think about something like developmental malnutrition. Developmental malnutrition causes reduced IQ. As this form of malnutrition was reduced in a previously very poor area you'd see a substantial increase in average IQ. But then as future generations also have stable supplies of food, this increase would disappear as the stable food supply would no longer provide a relative increase compared to past generations. Make sense?

IQs getting literally lower is something very different than IQs growing less slowly.

Re: Our Chess Champion Has a Home

#88

Post by rjf72 »

reissbaker wrote: post #86
reissbaker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Denmark, the Flynn effect began declining (although didn't yet start reversing) as early as the 70s: > Teasdale and Owen (2005) examined the results of IQ tests given to Danish male conscripts. Between 1959 and 1979 the gains were 3 points per decade. Between 1979 and 1989 the increase approached 2 IQ points. Between 1989 and 1998 the gain was about 1.3 points. I don't think that trend of declining growth, shiftin…

Also, an article from Slate noting that in Norway, IQ scores began declining in 1975: > What they found is that for Norwegians born between 1962 and 1975, IQs increased within each family by 0.26 points per year: Younger brothers had slightly higher scores than their older siblings, relative to expectations. (The researchers had to control for the more general fact that older siblings tend to have higher IQs than you…

As your quote says, that study is talking about birth years, not the year they were tested. Since it's based on conscription it's around age 19-20, so the decline was measured between ~1994 and 2011. Your lead paragraph also states as much:

"...At some point in the mid-1990s, IQ scores in these countries tipped into decay, losing roughly one-fifth to one-quarter of a point per year..."

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