More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies • Hacker News Board

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#101

Post by chmln » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:25 PM UTC

beenBoutIT wrote: post #41

fencepost wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what happens when you're effectively an apex predator - you eat the things that eat the things with contamination and much of it gets concentrated into you, particularly the things that bioaccumulate over time. Outside of pesticides but similar, that's why it's important to limit things like tuna consumption particularly from larger species that can build to high mercury levels.

IIRC, there has never been a case of mercury toxicity from normal consumption of commercial seafood recorded in any American medical journal. These larger species you mention could exist outside of that sphere.

I would bet that mercury toxicity is incredibly underdiagnosed, especially if it's not acute.

Fatigue, insomnia, and a host of other symptoms are fairly common and not easy to spot as a part of a bigger problem.

Anecdata: when I went to a large hospital they laughed off my idea that I have heavy metal poisoning and didn't even have the facilities to test for it. Only months later after visiting a naturopath and getting tested did my suspicions get confirmed. This case will never be on any official health records.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#102

Post by randomdata » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:26 PM UTC

strait wrote: post #89

mtw wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't know how to grow food, there's this project that will seed and take care of plants https://farm.bot From what I read, this produces enough veggies for a family of four all year round. Now producing beans, rice or wheat is another matter. I don't think its possible without moving to your own farm

Don't include beans on that list! They are the easiest of all to produce, as long as your summer isn't too terribly cold. Maybe you were thinking of corn?

Presumably the parent is referring to dry beans, which aren't exactly fun to process by hand. I grow them commercially and when we want to thresh even a small amount (i.e. nothing close to what one would want to sustain themselves on) for a moisture sample without having to take the combine to the field, it is a lot of work. Same goes for wheat. Anything that normally goes through a combine, really.

Theoretically there should be nothing stopping one from growing any of those crops in small scale, assuming the right climate and soil conditions. There are small scale separating units that can be used to deal with the above. But it is tough to compete with the economies of scale that commercial operations have. These crops in particular are probably the most efficiently grown farm products of all. The cost of growing them at home will scare away most.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#103

Post by korethr » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:27 PM UTC

astrea wrote: post #98

korethr wrote: post #79

Okay, this Environmental Working Group found traces of pesticides on produce. That's not terribly unexpected, given how most produce is, well, produced. What this article annoyingly neglects to mention, is the _numbers_ attached to those traces of pesticides. Where there large amounts of trace chemicals, such that the levels exceed the EPA's recommended safe exposure levels? Were they so high that dangerous levels of…

Also worth noting the EWG's reports have been questioned in the past for their bias. Heck, even the type of report this article mentions is commonly criticized: https://www.accountablescience.com/how-dirty-are-your-fruits...

There's another factor that I think the OP fails to account for and that's washing produce before cooking and consumption. It's a habit I've been in for as long as I can recall cooking with produce, which I probably picked up from my parents, and have seen in just about every kitchen I've been in.

As far as I recall, it was less out of a concern over pesticide residue, but more to make sure all soil was removed from the produce before consumption. That latter point is very important! It _sucks_ to bite into a grain of sand when eating a salad because I neglected to wash the lettuce well. And even if the trace levels of pesticides were close to the unsafe chronic threshold, washing the produce to remove remaining trace dirt is, IMO, likely to take those trace levels of pesticides down far enough that I don't need to worry.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#104

Post by rubicon33 » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:30 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #83

rubicon33 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious about this part: > Very informative and, if you're like me and are constantly panicked that everything's trying to kill you, I recommend it. So are you saying this will help me STOP worrying that everything is trying to kill me? I'm kinda to the point where I feel like if you aren't eating organic broccoli for breakfast lunch and dinner, than you're killing yourself. So I'm not sure I need any MORE informatio…

I hate to be the one to inform you but organic broccoli isn't any healthier than conventional broccoli.

And I hate to be the one to inform you, that I tend not to take random internet comments to heart. But if you're saying that eating organic food in general has no health benefits vs. conventional food, I'd love to read whatever source you've derived that from. I always keep an open mind.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#105

Post by patejam » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:31 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #100

AndrewGaspar wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this comment kind of funny because the incredible byproduct of modern agriculture (including pesticides) is that the vast majority of the human race can now do something besides toiling away at food production.

from what i understand, pesticides weren't being used in a big way until the 90's, so the "(including pesticides)" doesn't seem true.

We also have 2.2billion or so more people (+41%) than 1990. You can try to argue that we could do it without pesticides, but it is absolutely true that pesticides have been a huge help towards the output of "modern agriculture".

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#106

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:33 PM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #34

geddy wrote: post #28

Watched a great documentary on Netflix called `Stink!` that was about all the crap found in all sorts of products under the hidden phrase "fragrance" (or in some cases, "parfum"). All sorts of chemicals you've never heard of to make those garbage bags smell like apple orchards. Very informative and, if you're like me and are constantly panicked that everything's trying to kill you, I recommend it.

Curious about this part: > Very informative and, if you're like me and are constantly panicked that everything's trying to kill you, I recommend it. So are you saying this will help me STOP worrying that everything is trying to kill me? I'm kinda to the point where I feel like if you aren't eating organic broccoli for breakfast lunch and dinner, than you're killing yourself. So I'm not sure I need any MORE informatio…

[deleted]

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#107

Post by strait » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:34 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #7

Is it possible to grow enough food in your backyard to live off of (plus chickens as a yard waste disposal) if you also work full time? I can't even eat at a restaurant without knowing if they use organic produce.

Yes, it's possible if your lot isn't too tiny or too shaded and your climate isn't extreme. Even a quarter to a half acre space can grow quite a lot, if you're smart about it. But there will be a lot of learning and the summer effort would be a major hobby for you, no doubt. Chickens or rabbits will need to eat significantly more protein than what yard waste provides if you want meaningful chicken or rabbit output, so plan on either external inputs for them or having a large enough area dedicated to growing their additional beans/corn/seeds. If your lot is small and your goal is to be self contained, then you will probably opt for being vegetarian. Study up on Permaculture methods. There is a lot of wisdom there. Corn and soybeans still pack a lot of nutrition for us, if you can grow them and know how to process them for full effect. (Make masa from corn and tempeh from soybeans.) Potatoes are another option for calories.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#108

Post by mirimir » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:42 PM UTC

driverdan wrote: post #83

rubicon33 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious about this part: > Very informative and, if you're like me and are constantly panicked that everything's trying to kill you, I recommend it. So are you saying this will help me STOP worrying that everything is trying to kill me? I'm kinda to the point where I feel like if you aren't eating organic broccoli for breakfast lunch and dinner, than you're killing yourself. So I'm not sure I need any MORE informatio…

I hate to be the one to inform you but organic broccoli isn't any healthier than conventional broccoli.

That's because "organic" by the FDA's definition is bullshit. There are all sorts of exceptions. For one thing, it's difficult to find arable land that hasn't been contaminated with persistent pesticides.

Also, some kinds of indirect exposures are allowed. For example, say that you raise "non-organic" chickens. You can feed their waste (after sterilization, of course) to your dairy cattle, and still market the milk as "organic".

If you could find uncontaminated land, you could produce actual contaminant-free food. Well, maybe not "contaminant-free", given all the crap floating around, but much closer.

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#109

Post by AndrewGaspar » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:45 PM UTC

pdonis wrote: post #71

jillesvangurp wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of examples of intensive farming in e.g. greenhouses and vertical farms that don't involve pesticides. That's in addition to loads of traditional farmers converting to organic farming and managing decent yields as well. So plenty of proof that it can be done and that it is being done. Whether it scales is more a technical challenge than a scientific question IMHO. The real problem in farming is not cos…

> The real problem in farming is not cost but the fact that there are a lot of middlemen taking all the profits. No, that's not the problem. The problem (if you view it as a problem) is that food is now produced very far away from where it is consumed, which means that the process of getting the food to the people who are eating it is now much more complicated and requires much more work. When you buy food at the sup…

> The problem (if you view it as a problem) is that food is now produced very far away from where it is consumed

The "bananas in Alaska" problem. :) https://www.superbeariga.com/shop#!/?id=12413&department_id=...

Re: More Than 90% of Americans Have Pesticides or Their Byproducts in Their Bodies

#110

Post by devmunchies » Mon, Mar 25, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

gabbygab wrote: post #48

cesnja wrote: post #14

The article doesn't mention meat and dairy as a source of surprisingly high levels pesticides and their byproducts. [1] https://medium.com/center-for-biological-diversity/does-meat...

What does that matter? If we get it from directly from plants we eat or indirectly through meat, you are still getting pesticides.

The amount of plants a cow eats vs a human is a big difference. You'll be exposed to less pesticides if you just eat plants instead of eating the cow and plants.

I'm talking about factory farming where the cow is fed large amounts of corn and soy.