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Apple announces Apple Card credit card

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Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've... actually never heard of these. Why isn't this more popular?

Not allowing you to carry a balance makes the card less flexible, since it takes away the ability to use the card to finance items you can't afford to pay in full right now. At least in the US, charge cards also (historically) charged higher fees to retailers, so a lot of stores wouldn't accept them.

> [...] ability to use the card to finance items you can't afford to pay in full right now.

Given the rates charged by many cards, I'm not sure you'd want to do that. The US has an average of 15%:

* https://www.creditkarma.com/credit-cards/i/average-apr-on-cr... * https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-credit-card-interest-ra...

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#192
post #179

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

You mean like Visa and MasterCard? Yes very unhealthy. Big entities shouldn’t control payments.

the difference is that there re dozens of CC companies which do not share information.

Apple already has a lot more info on users then CCs do.

edit

Apple knows a lot about you IF you use apple products. Didn't think this would be a controversial point :)

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all of those have pretty big caveats. Citi seems the closest to straight 2% assuming you pay off your balance all the time, I didn't notice any limits on how you get your 2%. But they do have late payment fees. PenFed you have to be active duty military to qualify for 2%... Fidelity you have to put your 2% (not going to call it "cash") into a Fidelity product, no balance credits.

I use Citi and there are no limits. I pay my balance in full every month and it's actually better IMO because it incentives payments. PenFed you don't have to be military, you can be a member as well and it's a pretty good bank anyways. Fidelity you can use their checking account, so it's as good as cash. Apple requires you to use Apply Pay to earn 2%, so it comes with it's own caveats.

Citi has late fees (but yeah, it looks pretty good) Looks like non-active duty PenFed members get 1.5% Fidelity Checking account sounds alright, but why not just balance credit?

Until apple pay is much more widely accepted that's a caveat for them. Probably stick around with Capital One 1.5% for now.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#194
post #107

I hope this is expanded beyond the US. I would get in a heartbeat; if Apple can expand this offering to Europe and other parts of the world with very little use of credit cards they will be able to create new business at a massive scale.

The problem is credit card business in US is a)much more profitable due to significantly higher interchange fees and b)credit cards adoption is much higher.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#195
post #184

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

Banks are pretty big too

Banks are also much more heavily regulated than tech companies.

Yes, they've mostly captured all the regulators at this point so it's like the foxes running the henhouse, but at least in theory that's how it's supposed to work. . .

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#196
post #179

I don't thing it is healthy to have big entities like this control fundamental services like payment processing. How long before the opaque governance of the App Store is applied to their payments offering? How long before activists start making this a new vector for deplatforming? Apple also announced a news offering ( https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-news-plus ) and I think the same concerns apply there.

You mean like Visa and MasterCard? Yes very unhealthy. Big entities shouldn’t control payments.

Point taken.

You could also argue that having multiple big entities doing payment processing is better for everyone to the extent that they are competing. I mean, Mastercard and Visa are undoubtedly going to pull every lever at their disposal to take out Apple. (And to take out Amazon and Walmart as well if they decide to jump into this thing.)

So rather than wishing that Apple were NOT a payment processor, I guess a better idea is to hope for the Walmarts, the Amazons, the Targets, etc to all jump in and join the cage match.

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#197

One of the reasons for having a Credit Card for me is the protection from shady merchants, fraudulent transactions and the assurance of getting my money back if there is a major issue with product/service. AMEX once refunded me $1800 for speakers that were damaged in shipping with some documentation, photos and details about the issue. Now, customer service varies from bank to bank but AMEX has always had the best cu…

am sensing like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymCoiZS0HLA ?

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all of those have pretty big caveats. Citi seems the closest to straight 2% assuming you pay off your balance all the time, I didn't notice any limits on how you get your 2%. But they do have late payment fees. PenFed you have to be active duty military to qualify for 2%... Fidelity you have to put your 2% (not going to call it "cash") into a Fidelity product, no balance credits.

That's fair, but with caveats you can also get more than 2% back on every purchase and 4-5% on many purchases. For many people, that's easily worth it and I wouldn't settle for a 2% back card.

what card do you have?

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#199

Just allow me to create as many 'virtual' credit cards from a single card and that's enough. Every single provider that promised that feature has either underwhelmed, or gone out of business.

I use privacy.com for that and have been happy with it. Nice controls (one-time, max monthly allowance, custom expiration).

Re: Apple announces Apple Card credit card

#200
https://www.economist.com/business/2017/10/28/apple-should-s...

(2017) 'The world’s biggest firm has a financial arm half the size of Goldman Sachs'

'...Apple says that its “value-at-risk” (VAR), a statistical measure of the maximum likely loss in an average day, is $434m. That is huge: similar to the combined VAR of the world’s top ten investment banks. In theory losses on derivatives would be offset by gains in the value of Apple’s underlying business. But the sheer size of these positions gives pause for thought.'

'...Its foreign operation swims in cash while its domestic one drowns in debt. Profits made abroad are kept in foreign subsidiaries. That way Apple does not pay the 35% levy America charges when earnings are repatriated. Some 94% of Apple Capital’s assets are “offshore” and cannot be tapped for ordinary purposes. The domestic business must do the hard work of paying for dividends and buy-backs. Its profits are not big enough to cover these, so it borrows. Domestic net debts have risen to $92bn, or five times domestic gross operating profits. Each year Apple must issue $30bn of bonds (including refinancing), similar to the average of Wall Street’s five largest firms.

Apple’s core business is so profitable that it is—almost—inconceivable that a blow-up at Apple Capital could lead to it needing taxpayer or central-bank support, as was the case for GM and GE. Still, it is easy to imagine how Apple Capital could hurt its parent. A market shock could lead to losses on its portfolios. A two-percentage-point rise in interest rates would result in a loss of $10bn. If bond markets dried up, Apple might struggle to issue so much debt and have to bring home funds, incurring a big tax bill. It might also become tricky to run such a big derivatives portfolio.'

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