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Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

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Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#211

Post by dang »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #208
unclebucknasty wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who disagree with you aren't always trolls or bots > There are people out there with differing views Strawmen. > And not like it justifies the Russians, but MediaMatters bots Reddit for the DNC Citation? What's your point, anyway? This is just what-aboutism that has nothing to do with the question at-hand. Obviously. > I don't think HackerNews is a big enough target for anyone tbh The HN community is sizeabl…

Lol, you just yelled strawmen over and over and called my comment propaganda without furthering your point at all. You're the one who speculated there are bots here. Just because there are comments without replies and downvotes. Unless you're psychic or you know Putin you don't have any proof of that, so it's wild speculation. My point was those are more than likely real people with differing views. That's way more l…

Personal attacks will get you banned here. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting to HN from now on?

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#212

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #210
unclebucknasty wrote: post #128

[flagged]

You've broken more than one of the site guidelines in this thread, particularly the ones that ask you not to insinuate astroturfing and not to go further into flamewar. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and abstain from doing these things here, hard though that can be. The internet reflex where people assume that only trolls, bots, or shills can explain something they dislike online, is o…

[deleted]

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#213

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

dang wrote: post #211
s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, you just yelled strawmen over and over and called my comment propaganda without furthering your point at all. You're the one who speculated there are bots here. Just because there are comments without replies and downvotes. Unless you're psychic or you know Putin you don't have any proof of that, so it's wild speculation. My point was those are more than likely real people with differing views. That's way more l…

Personal attacks will get you banned here. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting to HN from now on?

Fair enough, I removed the unneeded sentence.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#214

Post by unclebucknasty »

dang wrote: post #210
unclebucknasty wrote: post #128

[flagged]

You've broken more than one of the site guidelines in this thread, particularly the ones that ask you not to insinuate astroturfing and not to go further into flamewar. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and abstain from doing these things here, hard though that can be. The internet reflex where people assume that only trolls, bots, or shills can explain something they dislike online, is o…

>Please review...

Sure. Will have a look at the guidelines and appreciate the pointer, as well as the job you have to do.

>The internet reflex where people assume that only trolls, bots, or shills can explain something they dislike online, is off topic here. It has also become so self-parodically common that one can only hope it will jump the shark soon.

But, I don't appreciate the additional editorializing and don't believe your attempt to ridicule me here stands up to your own guidelines. Add to that the fact that you are a moderator, and the standard to which you hold yourself should be even higher.

And, that speaks only to the style you chose here. On the substance, of course we know that my pointing to what I noted as an observable pattern vs merely "something I dislike online" are two entirely different matters. We also know that such things as trolls and shills continue to exist, even if some too readily make the claim that they are present. As for me, you will very rarely find those claims in my history here and, where I have applied it, you might even be surprised at the patterns were you to look more closely. Or not. I could certainly be wrong.

But, as it is, you've restated my position so as to trivialize it, then ridiculed it. In so doing, you've moved it from "hey, please don't do that here, as it's a violation" to "here's my opinion of your comment".

If you want to be part of the discussion to make some additional point about what you think of people who, say, display an "internet reflex" you disdain, then perhaps use a throwaway. But, as it is, I would have difficulty seeing how your comment doesn't "further a flamewar", apart from your position as a moderator precluding members from engaging with you in such.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#215

Post by manicdee »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #178
dragonwriter wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> noone was indicted in the campaign other than for tax fraud and processing crimes. Pappadopolous was convicted for lying about his attempts, approved by higher ups in the campaign, to coordinate with Russia. Stone was indicted for lying about his role in coordinating between the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks about the DNC document release in which, from other indictments, WikiLeaks was acting as either an agent or d…

Those are processing crimes. And Stone denies the accusation.

Al Capone was only convicted of tax evasion. I am sure he denied that accusation at the time, and he also boasted about a plea bargain that the sentencing judge reminded him wasn’t between Al Capone and the court.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#216

Post by bavanmub »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #22
db48x wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's pretty clear that a lot of reporters have compromised their ethics, or never had any. The article quotes several; it is in fact the entire point of the article. Of course you might also say that the _owners_ of the media don't care about this lack of ethics as long as they're making money. That's probably true, but it's not the same thing at all. The blame goes to the people who have no ethical standards, or…

How is covering one of the biggest scandals in modern American politics malpractice? Obama never had anything similar in scope over 8 years.

How about promising russians flexibility on national defense topics after election [1]? If Trump said this, he'd be destroyed in a moment.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-summit-obama-medv...

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#217

Post by Fjolsvith »

SEJeff wrote: post #209
Fjolsvith wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as pointless as proving he's about to be arrested in the Oval Office. A sitting president cannot be arrested by his administration, by law.

A sitting president can not be indicted by the DoJ, per DoJ policy. There is no law whatsoever, but only a memo that makes a policy from the DoJ's OLC (Office Of Legal Opinion). If you think this is a law, you are mistaken.

Perhaps Trump can meet Barr in his private plane to discuss grandchildren prior to Russian collusion being found to be an inconsequential "matter" not requiring prosecution.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#218

Post by davvolun »

gpsx wrote: post #119
montalbano wrote: post #10

Although I agree with many of the points here, unfortunately the piece itself has made the same mistake as the media it criticises: it's jumping to conclusions a little prematurely. Why read so much into the lack of indictments when Mueller's team have agreed to the standard that they cannot indict a sitting president? [1] Let's just wait and see -- I'm fed of speculation at this point. [1] https://www.washingtonpost…

I think the real problem in the US media is political bias. I think essentially the article is accusing the left leaning media of letting that bias color their views. Of course the article is equally guilty of that same thing. And I assume it does not see its own bias. And sadly, the fact that the media is like this is largely a reflection of the population in general. And, as others point out, the media is probably…

> I think the real problem in the US media is political bias.

Absolutely not. As someone else notes to your comment, everyone is biased. I'm "biased" that people not dying is a good thing -- some would argue the universe would be better off without humanity. Bias is inevitable, and not the problem; the problem, as you state, is "letting that bias color their views." Or, rather, not so much "color" your views, but letting your personal bias override any other interpretation.

I personally believe Trump has done some very illegal things and it's just a question of finding a smoking gun. That doesn't mean he has done anything illegal regarding situation X (I don't know, let's say promoting Mar-A-Lago after he started running for office), and that's something I need to keep in mind when I read articles about him.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#219

Post by davvolun »

Personally flagged this article. This is incredibly hyperbolic and ignores some very important facts. What surprised me was that the title here "Russiagate is a death-blow" may have been slightly less hyperbolic than the article's title.

If the purpose of journalism is to sort fact from fiction, and we clearly have a President that thrives on providing "fiction," seems to me journalism is doing alright here. Maybe a C+.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#220

Post by dang »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #213
dang wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personal attacks will get you banned here. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting to HN from now on?

Fair enough, I removed the unneeded sentence.

"Lol, you just yelled strawmen over and over and called my comment propaganda without furthering your point at all." is also unneeded.
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