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Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

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Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#111

Post by mc32 »

jayd16 wrote: post #93
sonnyblarney wrote: post #13

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

I disagree. The Trump administration has done everything from secretly meet in Trump tower with Russian officials and lie about it to firing the head of the FBI because of the Russian investigation. In my mind, these two acts alone have warranted the last two years of coverage and investigation. Simply imagine a world where these things were ignored. How untrustworthy would the press seem then?

Don’t most campaigns, senators, etc., meet with foreign diplomats? Kerry went and met with foreign leaders despite not being part of the government. Carter does the same albeit with tacit or explicit approval.

Also after Comey’s restart of the email investigation many Dems wanted him fired.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#112

Post by auntienomen »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #24
abrahamepton wrote: post #15

This is...utterly delusional, and totally disconnected from the evidence on record. The President's campaign manager, deputy campaign manager, personal lawyer and National Security Advisor have either pled guilty or been convicted of felonies. Despite denying any contacts with Russia, we now know he'd been offered a deal to build the biggest tower in Europe, a payout worth $300 million, during the campaign. During th…

To your first point, it's easy to fall into a perjury trap. Noone in the campaign was indicted for conspiracy, they were indicted for lying. Planning to build a hotel in a country is not a crime, even if it's Russia. It's smoke in the scheme of things, but if he's not guilty, then it's perfectly okay. Meeting with a Russian ambassador is not a crime, setting up a backchannel is not a crime. Many campaigns have done s…

Meeting with the Russian ambassador can indeed be a crime under the Logan Act. Private citizens don't get to make foreign policy, and none of Trump's team was in office at that point.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#113

Post by Invictus0 »

This article seems rather premature. The Mueller report has not been released yet, and we know that the Justice Department prohibits indictment of a sitting president. We also know from court filings that President Trump personally directed his lawyer to violate campaign finance laws.

Trump cannot be indicted. We knew that from day 1. In addition, "collusion" is not even a real crime. The question is whether the Mueller report discovers sufficient evidence of crimes for Congress to initiate impeachment proceedings, the real mechanism for removing Trump from office.

However, I do agree with the author. The coverage of this issue has been relentless and actually did reach witch hunt proportions. The bias was there and everyone knew it.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#114

Post by dang »

abrahamepton wrote: post #100
lamarpye wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is worse than Watergate. The FBI spied on a Presidential campaign using evidence supplied and paid for by the another candidate. If the names were changed, Hacker News people would be outraged. They would be mad at the FISA court, mad at the FBI, mad at the media. Look in the mirror and decide, do you have consistent principles or do they own apply in certain situations.

Multiple senior members of a Presidential campaign have either pled guilty or been convicted of serious felonies, and you think the ones to blame are the FBI? I mean I think the FBI has a lot to answer for, here and on plenty of other issues, but... I don't know how to tell you this, because you won't believe it, but if you're sincere and not a troll then you have a very unhealthy media diet. Your take here is very d…

Would you please not cross into incivility and personal swipes, regardless of how wrong someone else is or how strongly you feel? Your comments have been increasingly breaking the site guidelines in this thread.

I know this is an issue on which views are both polarized and fixed. But that's why the guidelines say that comments should get more civil and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#115

Post by _cs2017_ »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #13

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

I'm curious, do you think without your disclosure, people would have read your post differently?

Occasionally (both online and in real life) I feel that whatever I say tends to be interpreted in the binary: "are you with us or against us". This makes it hard to have a thoughtful discussion. Clarifying that I'm loyal to whatever cause the audience supports helps to some degree.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#116

Post by thatoneuser »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #13

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

While I respect your dislike of the guy, I think that the fact that you consider his words so bad compared to what other recent leaders have said or done is a direct example of this propaganda machine. I mean what's the word he's said? Hillary said ~1/4 of Americans are deplorable, and also made the sexist claim that women are the primary victims of war. Bush put us into a nearly 20 year war entrapment. Clinton had unsavory sexual relations with an underlying.

Trump saying some bad things isn't enough for me. Unless you're also dissatisfied with the character of most presidents, I think your stance is the result of the propaganda machine.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#117

Post by ALittleLight »

arcticbull wrote: post #78
deogeo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...September 11th, 2001? How is that involved? Or did you mean something else?

America does propaganda better than probably any other country on earth, because it’s so interwoven into the fabric of society. Freedom of the press, of speech, of creators is espoused at every opportunity. And at the same time, the Pentagon is required to sign off on every movie script that shows any military buildings, or the White House. And they do make edits [1]. Military officials and commentators helped shape…

>And at the same time, the Pentagon is required to sign off on every movie script that shows any military buildings, or the White House. And they do make edits.

You're omitting a crucial detail and by doing so you make the situation you describe sound much more totalitarian. You're required to get the military to sign off on your script IF you want to use free or discounted military personal, equipment, or locations in your film. If you're making a movie where the heroes of the US military blow up some aliens, you'll be able to negotiate to use real tanks and planes for a reasonable cost in your fee. If you're talking about how the government kills people and is evil, you'll have to find another way to get your props. What you don't have to do is get government approval to make your film.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#118

Post by overwhelm »

dTal wrote: post #101
Theodores wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a pity you have to put the big disclosure at the top of your comment. But our media have made things very binary black and white. Not buying into the 'red scare' means that in the eyes of some you must be a Trump supporter. This is a failure of critical thinking and far too many people fall into this trap, thereby perpetuating things like 'RussiaGate' when it no longer makes sense to do so. The suspicions won't…

Okay, but... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20... That's 496 citations and a warning "This article may be too long to read and navigate comfortably". In other words, there's overwhelming evidence that Russia interfered. Like, not even a question. Suggesting it's a made-up media frenzy is just... alternate universe.

The length of an article proves nothing about the truth of its contents.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#119

Post by gpsx »

montalbano wrote: post #10

Although I agree with many of the points here, unfortunately the piece itself has made the same mistake as the media it criticises: it's jumping to conclusions a little prematurely. Why read so much into the lack of indictments when Mueller's team have agreed to the standard that they cannot indict a sitting president? [1] Let's just wait and see -- I'm fed of speculation at this point. [1] https://www.washingtonpost…

I think the real problem in the US media is political bias. I think essentially the article is accusing the left leaning media of letting that bias color their views. Of course the article is equally guilty of that same thing. And I assume it does not see its own bias.

And sadly, the fact that the media is like this is largely a reflection of the population in general. And, as others point out, the media is probably like this because they are just chasing profit.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#120

Post by arcticbull »

ALittleLight wrote: post #117
arcticbull wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America does propaganda better than probably any other country on earth, because it’s so interwoven into the fabric of society. Freedom of the press, of speech, of creators is espoused at every opportunity. And at the same time, the Pentagon is required to sign off on every movie script that shows any military buildings, or the White House. And they do make edits [1]. Military officials and commentators helped shape…

>And at the same time, the Pentagon is required to sign off on every movie script that shows any military buildings, or the White House. And they do make edits. You're omitting a crucial detail and by doing so you make the situation you describe sound much more totalitarian. You're required to get the military to sign off on your script IF you want to use free or discounted military personal, equipment, or locations…

I think that’s the crux of my point. Yes of course it’s optional to make a movie with the White House in it. It’s optional to use war footage to report on the war. It’s optional to interview officials in your coverage. However if you don’t, nobody’s going to pay attention so your only choice in effect is to play ball. Who would watch media coverage of the war from the only network without footage/boots on the ground/military subject matter experts? You can say whatever you want but it doesn’t matter if nobody’s listening. In a true free country these would be available to you to do as you wish, wouldn’t they, with equal access provisions? (That’s not rhetorical I’m curious your thoughts)

That’s what I respect about it, and what makes it so powerful — the result is the same as under a totalitarian government but without the threats. And it’s still got freedom!

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