Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media • Hacker News Board

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#101

Post by dTal » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:12 AM UTC

Theodores wrote: post #62

sonnyblarney wrote: post #13

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

It is a pity you have to put the big disclosure at the top of your comment. But our media have made things very binary black and white. Not buying into the 'red scare' means that in the eyes of some you must be a Trump supporter. This is a failure of critical thinking and far too many people fall into this trap, thereby perpetuating things like 'RussiaGate' when it no longer makes sense to do so. The suspicions won't…

Okay, but...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_20...

That's 496 citations and a warning "This article may be too long to read and navigate comfortably".

In other words, there's overwhelming evidence that Russia interfered. Like, not even a question. Suggesting it's a made-up media frenzy is just... alternate universe.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#102

Post by peisistratos » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #13

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

I concur. I dislike Trump's comments about Mexican immigrants as rapists, his recent annexation of Syria's Golan Heights and so on and so forth. My comment history will attest to this.

People on the left who are not part of the machine of the Democratic Party - Ralph Nader, Noam Chomsky, many lesser known people in that orbit, have said all along that this whole Trump/Russia thing has been overblown.

The Democrats lost the 2016 election. Trump railed against NAFTA and TPP and campaigned around working class people in the Midwest and said the US was in too many wars abroad and steel workers needed help. Hillary took money from Wall Street, initially supported TPP, didn't visit the Midwest despite Michael Moore's entreaties - he was saying at the time which states she could lose, all of which she did.

Nader said, paraphrasing - "The Democrats had unappealing policies in 2000 and lost, and in 2016 and lost. They could be self-critical and see US workers did not support their policies, and change them to be more appealing to US workers. Or they could keep taking corporate PAC money and find a scapegoat. They chose that option. The scapegoat was me (Nader) in 2000. In 2016 it was Putin."

In a move to try to be less appealing to voters, the DCCC just passed a number of policies trying to prevent local Democratic parties from running primaries against incumbents. They want control to be held by incumbents and corporate PACs and party hacks - any body other than the local Democratic voters who do all the leg work and voting.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#103

Post by int_19h » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:14 AM UTC

75dvtwin wrote: post #43

abrahamepton wrote: post #15

This is...utterly delusional, and totally disconnected from the evidence on record. The President's campaign manager, deputy campaign manager, personal lawyer and National Security Advisor have either pled guilty or been convicted of felonies. Despite denying any contacts with Russia, we now know he'd been offered a deal to build the biggest tower in Europe, a payout worth $300 million, during the campaign. During th…

I think you are purposefully ignoring facts, so that high level sentences match your narrative. Flynn (security advisor for a couple of day) -- was setup. There was no collusion with Russia to change 2016 election outcomes, that Flynn was accused of. "... made materially false statements and omissions during an interview with the Federal Bureau of Investigation ("FBI") on January 24, 2017, in Washington, D.C. " [1] h…

Lying to FBI is one thing Flynn pleaded guilty of, as part of his deal. But there were other charges, such as working for Turkey without registering as a foreign agent - the deal is pretty much the only reason why Flynn got out of it, by giving them enough evidence to convict his co-conspirators.

And while it's not Russia, it is still very much relevant to 2016 election, since Flynn's participation in the scheme happened while he was already the national security adviser for the Trump campaign.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#104

Post by abrahamepton » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:14 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #13

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

[flagged]

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#105

Post by rbg246 » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #95

jayd16 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. The Trump administration has done everything from secretly meet in Trump tower with Russian officials and lie about it to firing the head of the FBI because of the Russian investigation. In my mind, these two acts alone have warranted the last two years of coverage and investigation. Simply imagine a world where these things were ignored. How untrustworthy would the press seem then?

Ignoring it is one thing. Practically promising collusion is another thing entirely.

In my reading of the reports, they have stated what is known of the investigation, not promised anything.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#106

Post by franey » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #12

montalbano wrote: post #10

Although I agree with many of the points here, unfortunately the piece itself has made the same mistake as the media it criticises: it's jumping to conclusions a little prematurely. Why read so much into the lack of indictments when Mueller's team have agreed to the standard that they cannot indict a sitting president? [1] Let's just wait and see -- I'm fed of speculation at this point. [1] https://www.washingtonpost…

Because to have collusion you need to have multiple parties colluding. They haven't indicted anymore Russians or any other members of the Trump campaign, and no existing indictment has been due to collusion. So even though the President can't be indicted, the indication that no other indictments means that collusion is not a part of the report. There may be other offenses that Trump have committed, but that is even M…

Saying that no indictment has been because of collusion isn't true, since Manafort was indicted in part for lying to investigators about his contacts with Kilimnik.

Surely you'd agree that Trump's campaign chair giving US polling data to a Russian cut-out counts as colluding.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/paul-manafort-trump-polling-da...

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#107

Post by IdontRememberIt » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:19 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #13

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

What strikes me is that this trend is global (International) and not local (US). Trump (and many other public figures in other countries) are the products of a situation and not the causes.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#108

Post by tucats » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:19 AM UTC

skookumchuck wrote: post #76

> Stories have been coming out for some time now hinting Mueller’s final report might leave audiences “disappointed,” as if a President not being a foreign spy could somehow be bad news. That sums it up for me. People were desperate to believe their President was a criminal.

I think people were desperate to rationalize Hillary's loss and shift the blame.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#109

Post by int_19h » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:20 AM UTC

lamarpye wrote: post #21

abrahamepton wrote: post #15

This is...utterly delusional, and totally disconnected from the evidence on record. The President's campaign manager, deputy campaign manager, personal lawyer and National Security Advisor have either pled guilty or been convicted of felonies. Despite denying any contacts with Russia, we now know he'd been offered a deal to build the biggest tower in Europe, a payout worth $300 million, during the campaign. During th…

None of the people were convicted on charges related to Russian collusion. Many people convicted/plead guilty to process crimes, for example, lying to the FBI. I won't accuse of you of trying to mislead people, but the judge apologized for making the treason claim against Flynn: https://lawandcrime.com/awkward/judge-quickly-backtracks-apo...

That's because treason is an incredibly high bar to meet.

Nevertheless, we now know that Flynn was acting as a propaganda agent of Turkey - by his own testimony, used to convict his co-conspirators - without registering as such. Do you consider this a "process crime"?

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#110

Post by peisistratos » Sun, Mar 24, 2019, 1:20 AM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #90

Just the things that are public about Trump should be disqualifying for an American President. * failure to disclose tax returns * failure to divest of his business interests * blatant nepotism ( including issuing his son-in-law a security clearance against the advice of professional sta ff ) * Owning a private club (Mar-a-lago) to which he sells memberships and visits at taxpayer expense where his customers have exc…

I think you are making his point. Put all those things together, plus his loony policies, you have a better case against him - in 2020 (or perhaps sooner). This overblown Russian nonsense, which is a lot of smoke for so small a fire, distracts from the other things.