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Rethinking Streets for Bikes

rethinkingstreets.com

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Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#11

Post by skookumchuck »

crote wrote: post #6

I quickly read through this. Context: I'm Dutch and live in Utrecht, The Netherlands. This booklet has one massive flaw: it is constructed using American best-practices. At best, a couple of examples could be considered almost acceptable. Most of them were woefully inadequate and consist of little more than a blob of quickly-fading green paint in ill-considered positions. Worst of all, several examples are clearly fl…

Around here they create X crossings, where the bike lane and the right hand car lane cross each other in an X. This is sheer madness.

Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#12

Post by bsder »

ams6110 wrote: post #9
twblalock wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The places where people ride bikes en masse, like Amsterdam, have physical separation. Very few people want to have cars whizzing by a few feet from their elbows. If you want people to seriously consider cycling as anything other than a hobby you need physical separation of bicycles from cars. Unfortunately cycling advocacy organizations in the United States tend to be opposed to physical separation.

Why is that? I've seen that: dedicated, separated bike paths are unused, and cyclists continue to ride in the street with the cars.

I suspect practicality.

The US simply isn't going to tear up a significant chunk of streets in any city and lay down enough bicycle-only infrastructure any time soon.

So, it's a lot more effective to co-opt the existing infrastructure and lobby for speed limit changes, access changes, road humps, etc.

> I've seen that: dedicated, separated bike paths are unused, and cyclists continue to ride in the street with the cars.

Generally this is on bike paths that were put in to satisfy some "green initiative" but don't actually go anywhere useful. It also sometimes happens on "bike paths" that cross too many roads; you're better off riding on a parallel roadway that's actually optimized for traffic flow.

I have rarely seen idle bike paths when they exist in a downtown where people work.

Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#13

Post by v_dev »

crote wrote: post #6

I quickly read through this. Context: I'm Dutch and live in Utrecht, The Netherlands. This booklet has one massive flaw: it is constructed using American best-practices. At best, a couple of examples could be considered almost acceptable. Most of them were woefully inadequate and consist of little more than a blob of quickly-fading green paint in ill-considered positions. Worst of all, several examples are clearly fl…

Agreed, there's no need to re-invent the wheel. Just do what the Dutch did: they have the best cycling infrastructure in the world and they have lots of experience.

Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#14

Post by devmunchies »

jdavis703 wrote: post #4

This might sound pedanatic but I hate when transportation choices are framed as for cars or for bikes. Transportation is for people. Talking about and designing our street infrastructure as if it’s designed for machines like cars and bikes leads us to designing systems that aren’t very friendly to humans (one needs to look no further than the ever increasing incidents of deaths for people walking or riding a bike).

>I hate when transportation choices are framed as for cars or for bikes. Transportation is for people.

To add, choices should be more holistically focused on generations of people into the future and the environment.

This isn’t the Wild West anymore. We got to start thinking long term.

Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#15

Post by kasey_junk »

ams6110 wrote: post #9
twblalock wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The places where people ride bikes en masse, like Amsterdam, have physical separation. Very few people want to have cars whizzing by a few feet from their elbows. If you want people to seriously consider cycling as anything other than a hobby you need physical separation of bicycles from cars. Unfortunately cycling advocacy organizations in the United States tend to be opposed to physical separation.

Why is that? I've seen that: dedicated, separated bike paths are unused, and cyclists continue to ride in the street with the cars.

Where?

Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#16

Post by ken »

crote wrote: post #6

I quickly read through this. Context: I'm Dutch and live in Utrecht, The Netherlands. This booklet has one massive flaw: it is constructed using American best-practices. At best, a couple of examples could be considered almost acceptable. Most of them were woefully inadequate and consist of little more than a blob of quickly-fading green paint in ill-considered positions. Worst of all, several examples are clearly fl…

> Add green dye to the asphalt instead of adding a layer of green paint.

We've had green bike lanes here for many years. I've never noticed any of them fade. We're supposed to lay new streets for one lane, for a problem which hasn't happened yet?

Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#17

Post by lifeisstillgood »

crote wrote: post #6

I quickly read through this. Context: I'm Dutch and live in Utrecht, The Netherlands. This booklet has one massive flaw: it is constructed using American best-practices. At best, a couple of examples could be considered almost acceptable. Most of them were woefully inadequate and consist of little more than a blob of quickly-fading green paint in ill-considered positions. Worst of all, several examples are clearly fl…

Agreed - details matter a lot. For example many years ago, Camden in London put in green asphalt cycle paths - one was dangerously hilarious - you ran parallel to the main road, on a painted strip, on the side of a one way street - going against the traffic.

However the new cycle "superhighways" in London are a big improvement but oddly now I find the biggest challenge is to change the attitude of the cyclists - we have effectively been given roads - and so now need to obey the laws of the road - it's a toss up if every cyclist will stop at the traffic lights for these superhighways - frustrating if you are a fellow cyclist and dangerous if you are crossing

At some point however we are going to face the fact that roads are a cheap form of transport because they are shared and so are dangerous - the UK has 4500 deaths a year - and when we look at segregating cycle traffic to make it safer we realise it is effectively asking to build a railway- and we shall face the same as self driving vehicles get close to good enough but plateau out - and I bet the business case for self driving cars rarely has ever been coated with "we build segregated roads everywhere with huge fences to keep out pedestrians and other hard to avoid objects."

Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#19

Post by i_am_proteus »

crote wrote: post #6

I quickly read through this. Context: I'm Dutch and live in Utrecht, The Netherlands. This booklet has one massive flaw: it is constructed using American best-practices. At best, a couple of examples could be considered almost acceptable. Most of them were woefully inadequate and consist of little more than a blob of quickly-fading green paint in ill-considered positions. Worst of all, several examples are clearly fl…

One more: if you run a cycle lane along a road for automobiles, run it above the main road's grade, if feasible.

Re: Rethinking Streets for Bikes

#20

Post by SECProto »

ken wrote: post #16
crote wrote: post #6

I quickly read through this. Context: I'm Dutch and live in Utrecht, The Netherlands. This booklet has one massive flaw: it is constructed using American best-practices. At best, a couple of examples could be considered almost acceptable. Most of them were woefully inadequate and consist of little more than a blob of quickly-fading green paint in ill-considered positions. Worst of all, several examples are clearly fl…

> Add green dye to the asphalt instead of adding a layer of green paint. We've had green bike lanes here for many years. I've never noticed any of them fade. We're supposed to lay new streets for one lane, for a problem which hasn't happened yet?

>We've had green bike lanes here for many years. I've never noticed any of them fade

The key word in your post is "here". These things vary by location - for example, anywhere that uses snowplows, a superficial treatment (paint, even thermoplastic) will wear away in a very short period of time. Centrelines here are repainted every year or two (or ten, on roads that aren't considered very important).

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