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Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

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71–80 of 227 posts

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#71

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

There's no lack of integrity critiquing an extreme position, or extreme incompetence.

There's nothing wrong with the press on this one.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a pity you have to put the big disclosure at the top of your comment. But our media have made things very binary black and white. Not buying into the 'red scare' means that in the eyes of some you must be a Trump supporter. This is a failure of critical thinking and far too many people fall into this trap, thereby perpetuating things like 'RussiaGate' when it no longer makes sense to do so. The suspicions won't…

While I respect your opinions of the press, I must also rhetorically ask, “Are you sure you want to be taking these men at their word?” https://m.telegraphindia.com/opinion/some-clues/cid/1669915

I am not trying to cause a flamewar here. Or to go off down on any rabbit holes.

Even the most odious of people can be taken at their word about some things. The heroin addict in the village might not be responsible for every burglary in the village even if they are responsible for 95% of them.

In England we have a tradition that people are innocent until proven guilty. RussiaGate and whatever happened in your linked story very much falls under that category.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#74

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

Half the reason Trump got elected was that the media just couldn't shut up about him. They're his best friends. If anything, all this media coverage shows is that the US mainstream media is now spectacularly ineffective and irrelevant. They might have brought down Nixon, but they can't bring down Trump. Everybody on all sides already has their minds made up, and they only read the news for entertainment, to confirm t…

The media also chose to spread the emails stolen by Russian intelligence instead of covering the Hollywood access tapes.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#75

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

But also this sort of fishing expedition can be triggered by both sides and is extremely unhelpful for democracy. For the moment it is a "winner gets investigated", just because of the opposition to Trump within the FBI and parts of the conservative party. But what's next? Looser gets investigated to ensure he cannot run again?

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#76
> Stories have been coming out for some time now hinting Mueller’s final report might leave audiences “disappointed,” as if a President not being a foreign spy could somehow be bad news.

That sums it up for me. People were desperate to believe their President was a criminal.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#77

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen. But the author is very correct. A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society. ... but it only works if they have integrity. Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their…

As long as for-profit media has access to the broadcast spectrum in a way that non-profit, independent media does not, our 5th estate will be subject to perverse incentives that favor "click-based" content.

We made a choice, in this country, to give away our spectrum to the highest bidder, no questions asked. We used to restrict programs that called themselves "news" to have to present a balanced, reality-grounded perspective, but by the early 90s fear of alternatives like the internet provided the fodder to dismantle that regulation.

It wasn't necessarily bad foresight either. These days, influencers on YouTube regularly get the same viewership that cable news does. Only very recently[1] have we begun to grapple with the social decay and radicalization that results when their engagement-optimization algorithm meets vulnerable folks. Try searching for historical, economic or political content and see how quickly Related Videos draws you down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole.

1. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/youtube-announces-it-...

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#78
post #70
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's the nearly 20 year old elephant in the room...

...September 11th, 2001? How is that involved? Or did you mean something else?

America does propaganda better than probably any other country on earth, because it’s so interwoven into the fabric of society. Freedom of the press, of speech, of creators is espoused at every opportunity.

And at the same time, the Pentagon is required to sign off on every movie script that shows any military buildings, or the White House. And they do make edits [1].

Military officials and commentators helped shape the narrative of the Iraq war, often with roles at the media outlets themselves. I’ll dig up the article I was thinking of when I get a chance. They helped shape the presentation after — any embeds had to run their footage by military editors before airing too.

What US propaganda does better than Chinese state propaganda for instance is that they don’t just tell the truth they want directly to your face even though it’s obviously and visibly wrong. They shape narratives. It’s an elegant, soft-touch approach. They make you want to hear and buy into their version of the truth. The press here hasn’t really been independent in a long time. I respect the game, tbh. It’s a free press so propaganda is impossible! Nothing to see here haha.

It’s also why I get my news from a couple of foreign sources and ideally it cancels out each providers biases. If you get a chance watch some Fox and CNN (I watch both) then compare to CBC and Al Jazeera English.

[1] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/film/2008/n...

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#79

Although I agree with many of the points here, unfortunately the piece itself has made the same mistake as the media it criticises: it's jumping to conclusions a little prematurely. Why read so much into the lack of indictments when Mueller's team have agreed to the standard that they cannot indict a sitting president? [1] Let's just wait and see -- I'm fed of speculation at this point. [1] https://www.washingtonpost…

Because to have collusion you need to have multiple parties colluding. They haven't indicted anymore Russians or any other members of the Trump campaign, and no existing indictment has been due to collusion. So even though the President can't be indicted, the indication that no other indictments means that collusion is not a part of the report. There may be other offenses that Trump have committed, but that is even M…

Yet there could be sealed indictments that have yet to be unsealed. In fact, every single one of Mueller's indictments were originally sealed. Who's to say there aren't others that he's handed off to various federal prosecutors like at SDNY or EVDA? Assuming that Mueller has entirely cleared the president (or anyone around him) at this point is about as pointless as proving he's about to be arrested in the Oval Office.

Let it play out and see what happens. Regardless, I suspect Congress will inevitably get the truth out and eventually it will come out to the public. Like most things in a democracy, they're often slow and sometimes messy. This is a feature, not a bug!

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a pity you have to put the big disclosure at the top of your comment. But our media have made things very binary black and white. Not buying into the 'red scare' means that in the eyes of some you must be a Trump supporter. This is a failure of critical thinking and far too many people fall into this trap, thereby perpetuating things like 'RussiaGate' when it no longer makes sense to do so. The suspicions won't…

While I respect your opinions of the press, I must also rhetorically ask, “Are you sure you want to be taking these men at their word?” https://m.telegraphindia.com/opinion/some-clues/cid/1669915

That is what Empathy is.

When you can only view the world in terms of who to hold responsible and who to Blame, you get hit in two ways. The chances of producing a reaction, defensiveness etc increase and the chances of connecting and producing healthier outcomes decrease.

Blame takes focus away from where attention needs to be. Empathy does the opposite.

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