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Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

taibbi.substack.com

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Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#11

Post by thucydidesofusa »

astrodust wrote: post #6
CptFribble wrote: post #2

I think the old guard media has misstepped on this, not for ideological reasons but for clicks. More banal certainly, but somehow worse, I think. Even the conservative media continued to talk about it, railing against, because it drives clicks. What we really need, and hopefully comes from this reckoning, is a new model of financing journalism that can be free to act in the public interest, and is built with that in…

All media owned by large, profit-at-all-costs organizations is conservative media, regardless of their branding.

It seems ill-fitting to say the Washington Post, NYT, and Huffington Post are 'conservative', perhaps it'd be more accurate to say that they're entrenched in the status quo? You can see that pretty clearly when there newspapers write about companies that compete for attention. I don't think I've seen a favorable report about FAANGs out of the NYT since Tim Cook came out of the closet.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#12

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x »

montalbano wrote: post #10

Although I agree with many of the points here, unfortunately the piece itself has made the same mistake as the media it criticises: it's jumping to conclusions a little prematurely. Why read so much into the lack of indictments when Mueller's team have agreed to the standard that they cannot indict a sitting president? [1] Let's just wait and see -- I'm fed of speculation at this point. [1] https://www.washingtonpost…

Because to have collusion you need to have multiple parties colluding. They haven't indicted anymore Russians or any other members of the Trump campaign, and no existing indictment has been due to collusion.

So even though the President can't be indicted, the indication that no other indictments means that collusion is not a part of the report.

There may be other offenses that Trump have committed, but that is even MORE speculation.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#13

Post by sonnyblarney »

Disclosure: I deeply loathe Trump, and I think he is unfit for office; very glad to see Mueller investigation initiated, because there was a lot of smoke and it needed to happen.

But the author is very correct.

A 'free press' is the 5th estate - an important part of civil society.

... but it only works if they have integrity.

Over the last two years it has become clear how narrow and biased they have become in their contempt for Trump and of course in search of 'more clicks'.

This is a deep wound for America that I do not think we can blame on Trump himself, however much some of us may loathe him.

Trump is a Loki who exposed a serious degradation in another part of the system and it has to remedied.

Sadly, I do not think they will admit their failures, and they will not reform, and as a result, we're going to be having wars over 'fake news' for a long time.

Post-Edit: I don't want this to take away from critiquing Trump for some of the awful things that he's said, or some of his questionable policies - my only point is 'the press broke' on this, and it's a legitimate concern. If the press lacks integrity, we lose the ability to hold people to account.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#14

Post by akhilcacharya »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #12
montalbano wrote: post #10

Although I agree with many of the points here, unfortunately the piece itself has made the same mistake as the media it criticises: it's jumping to conclusions a little prematurely. Why read so much into the lack of indictments when Mueller's team have agreed to the standard that they cannot indict a sitting president? [1] Let's just wait and see -- I'm fed of speculation at this point. [1] https://www.washingtonpost…

Because to have collusion you need to have multiple parties colluding. They haven't indicted anymore Russians or any other members of the Trump campaign, and no existing indictment has been due to collusion. So even though the President can't be indicted, the indication that no other indictments means that collusion is not a part of the report. There may be other offenses that Trump have committed, but that is even M…

You can tie the loose ends together. No matter what the final report has the Stone indictment is incredibly damning with regard to his communication with Wikileaks in addition to the Trump tower meeting.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#15

Post by abrahamepton »

This is...utterly delusional, and totally disconnected from the evidence on record.

The President's campaign manager, deputy campaign manager, personal lawyer and National Security Advisor have either pled guilty or been convicted of felonies. Despite denying any contacts with Russia, we now know he'd been offered a deal to build the biggest tower in Europe, a payout worth $300 million, during the campaign. During the transition, his son-in-law met with the Russian ambassador and asked to use the Russian government's communication system to evade scrutiny by the American intelligence community. During sentencing, a federal judge told the President's former NSA that "arguably, you sold out your country".

On what earth does Taibbi live?

I grant that perhaps the media built up the Mueller report to a point that no actual product could satisfy. But what we know is so outrageous that it's quite strange to conclude that the people doing the irresponsible misleading are the news media. This is such a strange, bizarre, consequential, unprecedented story cloaked in classified details that it's pretty odd to expect a media to do a great job of contemporaneously reporting on it.

I used to have a lot of respect for Taibbi, and I suppose I still do, but this is deranged on his part.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#16

Post by jasonlotito »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #12
montalbano wrote: post #10

Although I agree with many of the points here, unfortunately the piece itself has made the same mistake as the media it criticises: it's jumping to conclusions a little prematurely. Why read so much into the lack of indictments when Mueller's team have agreed to the standard that they cannot indict a sitting president? [1] Let's just wait and see -- I'm fed of speculation at this point. [1] https://www.washingtonpost…

Because to have collusion you need to have multiple parties colluding. They haven't indicted anymore Russians or any other members of the Trump campaign, and no existing indictment has been due to collusion. So even though the President can't be indicted, the indication that no other indictments means that collusion is not a part of the report. There may be other offenses that Trump have committed, but that is even M…

Not to mention that you can't be indicted for colluding, even if you give evidence and admit to collusion.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#17

Post by akhilcacharya »

>For years, every pundit and Democratic pol in Washington hyped every new Russia headline like the Watergate break-in. Now, even Nancy Pelosi has said impeachment is out, unless something “so compelling and overwhelming and bipartisan” against Trump is uncovered it would be worth their political trouble to prosecut

Genuinely confused - is it not worse than Watergate? At least Watergate was done by Americans.

The Mueller investigation confirmed the source of the hacks and the propanda effort in nauseating detail that was denied and dismissed during the campaign.

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#18

Post by ForrestN »

This is an incredibly backwards hot take.

The media has made many mistakes and continues to do so. But in the opposite direction.

In addition to the extraordinary number of people already indicted as part of the Special Counsel’s work, there is already ample documented public evidence of “russiagate.” Marcy Wheeler, the best reporter on this story, says “We know of at least five conversations at which various people entered into what I describe as a quid pro quo conspiracy.” 1

Russia and the Trump Campaign worked together to elect Trump as part of a quid pro quo conspiracy.

The media’s error was in anointing Mueller and his report as the savior and sword that would slay our villainous leader. The media has failed to convey reality to the public: in addition to crimes related to Russia, the president and his family have been shown to be awash in many, many kinds of crimes.

He cheated the non-profit system, lied about assets to secure loans, defrauded participants in his “university,” confessed on tape to a pattern of sexual assault corroborated by multiple credible first person accounts, committed tax fraud, helped his parents commit tax fraud, committed campaign finance violations, skirted White House anti-nepotism and ethics rules, publicly threatened witnesses, and has done many other things that are obviously disqualifying.

The failure of the press to convey the extent of Trump’s prolific criminal behavior before and after the 2016 election is this generation’s War in Iraq coverage.

1 https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/02/24/quid-pro-quo-redux-par...

Re: Russiagate is a death-blow for the reputation of the American news media

#20

Post by int_19h »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #12
montalbano wrote: post #10

Although I agree with many of the points here, unfortunately the piece itself has made the same mistake as the media it criticises: it's jumping to conclusions a little prematurely. Why read so much into the lack of indictments when Mueller's team have agreed to the standard that they cannot indict a sitting president? [1] Let's just wait and see -- I'm fed of speculation at this point. [1] https://www.washingtonpost…

Because to have collusion you need to have multiple parties colluding. They haven't indicted anymore Russians or any other members of the Trump campaign, and no existing indictment has been due to collusion. So even though the President can't be indicted, the indication that no other indictments means that collusion is not a part of the report. There may be other offenses that Trump have committed, but that is even M…

You can't indict anybody for collusion, since it's not a crime.

What is a crime is, for example, conspiracy to hack DNC computers - for which several people, mostly Russians, were already indicted. Another example would be conspiracy to "impair, obstruct, or defeat the lawful function of any department of government", which is what the Internet Research Agency was indicted for.

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