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Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

blog.datproject.org

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Re: Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

#21

Post by thekhatribharat »

The world of decentralized web (aka Web3) is witnessing both:

1) Transition of trust-translucent internet native centralized systems (social networks, file hosting services, instant messaging services) to decentralized systems using protocols like Dat, SSB, ActivityPub, IPFS, etc.

2) Onboarding of trust-opaque internet non-native centralized systems (legal tender, corporate law, legal citizenship) to digital decentralized systems using Bitcoin-born protocols like Ethereum, Polkadot, Cosmos, etc.

Re: Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

#22

Post by marknadal »

Another P2P protocol that wasn't mentioned, that is already powering 2M people across Internet Archive, d.tube (decentralized YouTube), notabug.io (P2P reddit) and others is https://github.com/amark/gun (mine).

I find it interesting how people mention file stores (IPFS/DAT) a lot more than databases (SSB/GUN). Distributed file stores have been around for a long time, and are not inherently useful for creating Google/Facebook-etc. killers, where-as a P2P database is very needed.

Is it perhaps because everyone already knows about BitTorrent, and there is BitTorrent nostalgia?

Re: Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

#23

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

ragebol wrote: post #8

In what way do Dat, IPFS, SSB, Mastodon, ActivityPub, Matrix etc. counter the push for some centralizing effect, in that eventually everyone is still dependent on the same server? It's still possible to host your own website & server, but not as easy as setting up a Facebook profile. Same goes for e.g. Mastodon: running your own server isn't as easy as creating your just an account. How do projects like Mastodon not…

If you use Mastodon, hosting your own server can be hard. If you use Facebook, hosting your own server is literally impossible.

Re: Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

#24

Post by syshum »

ragebol wrote: post #8

In what way do Dat, IPFS, SSB, Mastodon, ActivityPub, Matrix etc. counter the push for some centralizing effect, in that eventually everyone is still dependent on the same server? It's still possible to host your own website & server, but not as easy as setting up a Facebook profile. Same goes for e.g. Mastodon: running your own server isn't as easy as creating your just an account. How do projects like Mastodon not…

A few big servers is preferable to 1 big server (service)

Re: Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

#25

Post by myself248 »

zrm wrote: post #17
woah wrote: post #3

The issue with federated services is that they operate from the assumption that everyone has an anarchist sysadmin in their friend group who is going to help everyone run the federated infrastructure. I’ll use SSB as an example. If you install the software and make an identity, you’ll soon find that you have to sign up with something called a “pub server” to actually get any of your friend’s updates. Where do you fin…

> The issue with federated services is that they operate from the assumption that everyone has an anarchist sysadmin in their friend group who is going to help everyone run the federated infrastructure. I'm not sure this is a real problem. Email is federated, scales to approximately everyone, and there is no shortage of email providers that all interoperate with each other. How to fund it when no one you know wants t…

Funding community networks is one of the few use-cases I've seen that actually seem to make sense for cryptocurrency.

The Althea wireless mesh is doing this -- you "load" your router with a certain amount of credit, and it tries to get you the lowest-cost transport. People running nodes have incentive to optimize their antenna placement and signal, so they can carry more traffic and get paid for it.

I don't know if this directly applies to SSB since there's really nothing to "run", other than pubs which we've already established are only a stopgap solution anyway. Simply participating in the network (leaving your client running) is what provides the real "infrastructure", such as it is.

Re: Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

#27

Post by heavenlyblue »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #7
fenwick67 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hosting cost problem becomes acceptable if the pub server is fast enough and hosting is cheap enough. Look at IRC.

The cost would be zero if residential ISPs issued static ipv6 and allowed servers.

I don’t think static IPs are as relevant today.

What I do for my home PC (that’s for ipv4, but it doesn’t matter) is I map my current external IP in Google Cloud DNS every 15 minutes with a TTL of 0.

Of course I only make the change if needed, so I am easily below the paid threshold, too.

In a properly p2p system the idea of certain servers being offline for short amounts of time is considered a norm.

So should be OK either way.

Re: Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

#29

Post by gubbrora »

fenwick67 wrote: post #12
newscracker wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mastodon doesn’t seem to have a way to move a user account and still have others message or tag one in the same way as before. When you switch from, say mastodon.social to mastodon.xyz, it’s almost like switching from Yahoo Mail to Gmail. There seems to be a way to export one’s following list and move that to the new instance, but this does require informing others of the address change on one’s account. See https://…

If you've moved, your followers don't automatically follow you to your new home. But IMO that is fine. If I was following someone on cat.photo.space I might not want to follow them if they move to callgirls.xxx . IIRC, you get a warning if you try to interact with someone who has moved.

An important feature is maintaining your social network after a fallout with your admin.

I don't want no one to tell me what to do and to prevent that I've got to prevent people from having leverage with me.

Re: Three protocols and a future of the decentralized internet

#30

Post by lokedhs »

lukasb wrote: post #14
fenwick67 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've moved, your followers don't automatically follow you to your new home. But IMO that is fine. If I was following someone on cat.photo.space I might not want to follow them if they move to callgirls.xxx . IIRC, you get a warning if you try to interact with someone who has moved.

Is it possible to operate a lightweight forwarding service, so my address is portable across servers?

That wouldn't be much different from operating a server yourself, so while it's not impossible, it's more a question of what benefits it provides.
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