Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe • Hacker News Board

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#161

Post by toyg » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

solarkraft wrote: post #27

toyg wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I left when the writing was on the wall; it took another 4 years for them to pull the plug on the rest of the (UK) group, because the slow-erosion strategy wasn't working quickly enough; but they were given a pretty fair treatment, by all accounts. Oracle is a massive company, even with trade unions here in Europe. They will not screw you over, as long as you agree that their first and foremost priority is their bank…

Could you describe the slow-erosion strategy?

Any sort of promotion stopped, pretty much all career progression options were taken off the table, and people were not replaced when they left. Management was almost entirely dedicated to opening similar offices in countries with lower salaries (and labor protections...), then sending us out to train people there. When it failed in one place, they tried again elsewhere, and again, and again... Our office kept shrinking, both in terms of workforce and actual desk space, while workload per head inevitably went up as people moved on.

A year after I left, they moved to a smaller office, and after another couple of years they closed for good. It was all very predictable.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#162

Post by heelix » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 2:38 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #95

whatshisface wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Larry is approving hires it's just as a rubber stamp. There's no way anyone at the head of a company that size could think about anything at the employee level.

Don't underestimate Larry. Not in this regard anyway.

No kidding. We were a 500 person shop that was gobbled up by Oracle. First meeting with Larry - we were all suited out. Walk in, he is in jeans and a teeshirt. He asked, 'why you all dressed up?' A very, very technical discussion on our company's software. He had been thoroughly briefed on our stuff and asked very insightful questions on how our J2SE app worked.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#163

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 3:34 PM UTC

_jgdh wrote: post #139

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that simple. Whenever you report the exact dates of employment (which you can't easily fudge as they have to match with what the employer can / will attest to), such as for applying for a Green card, it will be clear that you have been in violation of status, in case you were out of work for >60 days. And then you are at the mercy of USCIS/DHS. You also have to attest that you have not been in violation of s…

I emigrated to Europe but I have about 20 friends who are on the H1B living in the US. I think folks on the H1B put up with awful treatment and don’t even know how awful it is because they haven’t seen a country that’s actually welcoming to immigrants. I’ve pointed out this awful situation where you can not afford to ever get let go from your job under any circumstances without jeopardising your life and your family’…

> If you’re Indian it could take anywhere between 15 to 20 years to get that Green Card.

Unless you are filing as EB1, expect to (and plan to) not get it in your lifetime unless the govt changes something.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#164

Post by kf77ffkaa » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #153

wangchungtonite wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know what echelon morphed into. Much of it was in the Snowden docs. If you are highly technical it’s not hard to imagine a few steps forward from what was in that release and realize just how massive the infrastructure and internet vacuum is.

Good point. More specifically, I was thinking about the supposed "acres" of underground computers that was slurping up phone call data when the program was discovered. I wonder how much storage and equipment it all takes now.

Railroad Lake, Henderson, NV

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#165

Post by xtracto » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 4:19 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #6

Here's a useless anecdote: I was fired from Oracle a couple years back, and it was done as pleasantly as one could expect. It completely depends on who's running your department. I was in storage testing. My direct manager had mediocre people skills, but the director is a superb manager in all respects, and she was the one who pulled the trigger in a face-to-face meeting with me. She made it as clean and honest as it…

This is when I cheers Mexico's government work rules (Oracle is firing in Mexico too): By law of you are fired without a reason attributable to you, the company has to pay you 3 months salary.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#166

Post by john_moscow » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

patrickyeon wrote: post #114

john_moscow wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone sign a contract that makes them liable for the relocation expenses (that could be easily ~50K for intercontinental moves) based on a risk that is outside their control?

- Because they didn't read that part so closely. - Because they read it closely but didn't interpret it correctly. - Because they brought it up and their counterpart said "don't worry, that's boilerplate and we've never actually used that clause". - Because the alternative was signing a contract that had no relocation/hiring bonus. - Because they needed a job, and that's what was there. - Because they really really n…

All I am saying is that in a relatively safe first world countries in 2019 there are not that many ways to screw up your life big time. But signing a contract that lets someone take take more than your net worth might be based on a risk that they control and you don't, is certainly one of them.

I have actually been in a somewhat similar situation myself and I had spent hours googling all the legalese and running the "worst case" simulations in my head before signing it. And my understanding of possible paths and their consequences was very helpful later when the corporate politics unfolded the wrong way and it helped me exit the situation with a net plus.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#167

Post by john_moscow » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

rcdmd wrote: post #116

john_moscow wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have done it on the division level. Pad your org with a relatively useless team just before the forced 10% layoff and you've dodged the bullet.

Are you trolling? You're accusing management of onboarding an H1-B, paying a sign-on bonus, paying relocation expenses and then paying them for 2 months to surreptitiously "pad the relatively useless team" so you can initiate a layoff instead individual firings. Nope. Generally, firings at big corp go like this: 1. Create an improvement plan for your under-performing worker. 2. Evaluate worker based on that plan in 1…

When you have several layers of middle management trying to sabotage one another in pursuit of better chances at the next reorg, even weirder things could happen. Been there myself.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#168

Post by jtreminio » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 6:36 PM UTC

shalmanese wrote: post #158

johan_larson wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Google, hires had to be approved by the founders as of 2013. This was when the company was hiring a few hundred people per week, so the founders got a spreadsheet with links or something like that. And apparently they did sometimes say no to some people. It seems like a bonkers practice to me. I understand that it is important to hire good people. But this could be delegated several levels down, at least for entry…

For the longest time, APMs had to have a phone screen with Marissa Mayer before they got hired. My main question when she asked me if I had any questions was whether this was the best use of her time. I don't know if that had any influence or not over their decision.

Don't leave us hanging - did it have a negative or positive effect on the outcome?

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#169

Post by praneshp » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 6:50 PM UTC

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #163

_jgdh wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I emigrated to Europe but I have about 20 friends who are on the H1B living in the US. I think folks on the H1B put up with awful treatment and don’t even know how awful it is because they haven’t seen a country that’s actually welcoming to immigrants. I’ve pointed out this awful situation where you can not afford to ever get let go from your job under any circumstances without jeopardising your life and your family’…

> If you’re Indian it could take anywhere between 15 to 20 years to get that Green Card. Unless you are filing as EB1, expect to (and plan to) not get it in your lifetime unless the govt changes something.

Plan to, I agree with that. But "Expect to" as well?

I'm asking mostly rhetorically (since I know of a handful of people that applied as well as got their non-EB1 green cards within the span of my lifetime), but slightly curiously as well (if you know any recent trends, etc).

Plan to is absolutely the best advice as far as I'm concerned

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#170

Post by MrTonyD » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 7:22 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #135

MrTonyD wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a PM at Oracle - our team VP reported to Larry. Everybody I worked with was very experienced and very sharp. On the other hand, we regarded most of the company as "sheep" who executed our plans. Completely expendable and generally unenlightened. Obviously there were other bright people around the company, but by and large they had no clue about our strategy or direction or the way that real decisions were made…

See, this just proves what I said in another comment -- that the different parts of Oracle are like completely different companies. I don't doubt what you say. But in ZFSSA QA, it was the opposite. Our director held regular all-hands meetings specifically meant to keep us all up to date on product strategy and direction. She wanted all of us to know exactly how our efforts were contributing to product revenue and to…

I agree completely. If a director was meeting the company goals and running either a harsh or caring organization - well, at the higher levels of the organization nobody really cared as long as things worked. We would put up with lawsuits, employee complaints, and customer complaints all day if the business was going in the right direction. We spent insane amounts on lawsuits in exchange for getting non-disclosures signed. Like I said before - Oracle didn't grow to its size by being stupid. (I should add that I didn't like the environment. When Larry offered me control of a big organization I left. I was tired of the horrible values and what I would be expected to do. I walked away from a transition to an Executive position to go back to simple technical work. No regrets.)