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Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

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21–30 of 164 posts

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#21
The belt is an excuse they use for modern colonization by debts.

Also, this deal is an entry in the EU which I really dislike. I hope the EU will step up it's game against china, too bad that our normal partner currently has an unstable leader. While XI is without a doubt a hard-working leader. Unfortunate, I do not approve their world vision, at all.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's getting late, but I can't seem to parse your first sentence. What is the its you are referring to when you say technology hampered its effectiveness. Secondly, I don't believe it is widely accepted that our nature is individualistic . Individualism is a moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, social outlook.

I think the GP means that central planning was hard to pull off without modern communication tech like phones and internet. So, the western style of federated semi-autonomous regions proliferated, since it didn't depend on strong central control. However, in the age of instant global communications, it may be that effective central planning is "better," or at least possible. And now, the individualistic model may not…

Centralized planning works if leaders are "right" about things, and have a certain measure of benevolence. Many East Asian economies (Singapore, South Korea, China, Taiwan, etc.) had dictators that did the "right" thing and brought about huge economic growth.

However, centralized planning has one fatal evolutionary flaw -- any errors from the top are amplified. The biggest example of this was China closing its ports in the 1400s following imperial decree, which started China's long path to civilizational decline because it cut off trade and new ideas. (China's thinking was: we're big and diverse enough internally -- we don't need no one else. This kind of insularity always brings about downfall.)

In Europe, because there wasn't a single monolithic power but instead many independent jurisdictions, as a whole it was more robust to errors. When a certain nation-state was on the rise, another declined, but overall there was progress. There were many golden ages, e.g. Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch and English, and they each had their time in the sun. Europe as a whole progressed.

Centralized planning is always more efficient; but if the leaders get it wrong, errors can be catastrophic.

Decentralized/democratic systems are always less efficient; but are ultimately more robust to changing environments and errors in the system. They are self-correcting to some extent.

Many successful countries start out with centralized systems, and often transition to decentralized/democratic systems (often not without some upheaval). The United States (and a few other countries) are unique in the sense that they started with a democratic ideal, but as far as I can tell they are exceptions to the norm.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#23
post #12
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because everyone is just flourishing under the US world order.

I think the US ideals of freedom of speech/thought/religion are great, but unfortunately the US "ideal" of greed seems to be what the US is better at exporting.

That freedom of thought is free insomuch that it conforms with the dominant ideology.

Many states have bans against people serving in government jobs if they are communists. How is that free?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/23/anti-c...

https://www.dailybulletin.com/2013/01/13/california-law-keep...

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#24

Is there any knowledge on why East Asian Tiger economies do so well with state backing ? The major takeaway from the 'Princes of Yen' by Richard Werner is about how Japan soared from a destroyed country to an economic powerhouse, before being brought down by the bankers at the BOJ, ostensibly to change the system from a 'state backed economy' to a US-styled one. Ditto with the Asian tigers in Thailand, S Korea etc. S…

I would say it's because it's properly planned capitalism. They however face growth issues because of lack of freedom. On the other side they have power to build massive projects that benefit the entire region or country.

You need an enlightened leader for this to work.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#25

The belt is an excuse they use for modern colonization by debts. Also, this deal is an entry in the EU which I really dislike. I hope the EU will step up it's game against china, too bad that our normal partner currently has an unstable leader. While XI is without a doubt a hard-working leader. Unfortunate, I do not approve their world vision, at all.

There should be a collective effort to put pressure on China to politically reform.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#27
post #23
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the US ideals of freedom of speech/thought/religion are great, but unfortunately the US "ideal" of greed seems to be what the US is better at exporting.

That freedom of thought is free insomuch that it conforms with the dominant ideology. Many states have bans against people serving in government jobs if they are communists. How is that free? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/02/23/anti-c... https://www.dailybulletin.com/2013/01/13/california-law-keep...

1. Many states is 4.

2. The Supreme Court has ruled that these laws are unconstitutional, so they are completely unenforceable.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#28
post #25

The belt is an excuse they use for modern colonization by debts. Also, this deal is an entry in the EU which I really dislike. I hope the EU will step up it's game against china, too bad that our normal partner currently has an unstable leader. While XI is without a doubt a hard-working leader. Unfortunate, I do not approve their world vision, at all.

There should be a collective effort to put pressure on China to politically reform.

Not possible in the current position, how can the US ( no offence) work together globally with the current leader.

He has some points ( eg. Military spending fot countries of the EU), but he's clearly unstable as a leader. I even think that the wall would just mean, a lot of money coming his way, as a real estate developer.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#29

Apparently the two parties signed 29 agreements covering a wide variety of areas - all of which are fairly standard and cover the standard touchstones of trade, science and culture [0]. That said, there is an undeniable symbolism in the appearance of renewing, at least nominally, a trade route which has occupied peoples' imaginations for centuries. In passing, one of the interviewees in the BBC story (Peter Frankopan…

Actually, Peter Frankopan has recently written an even more relevant (though confusingly named) book, The New Silk Roads: The Present and Future of the World, which is precisely about China's Belt and Road initiative and the US (and EU's) lack of pace in keeping up with the scale of China's foreign infrastructure spend.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#30
If you look really closely, and look at the right index, the development of homosapiens today is in a very dare situation. In gross industry out, which should be the true measure of national power, most major economis grow less than one percent even recession after deducting inflation. We human beings are at a historical low since the last industrial revolution. The reason is simple. We are no longer building amazing infrastructures in a large scale as we used to do.

However there's one exception, China. The gross output of China will soon be equivalent to the rest of the world combined. China consumes more cement and steel in five years than the US did in the last 100 years, and China has built more than half of the world's high-speed rails, in just 20 years. It's really a miracle.

That's why I think the BRI could be a real opportunity for many, where China tries to replicate its model of development to other countries through infrastructure building, and investment that those countries desperately need. The new silk road project will be the project of the century. For sure the Chinese will build influence upon it, even a new world order. Time to perfect your Mandarin skill!

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