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Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

bbc.com

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Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#11

Post by [deleted] »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #6
purple-again wrote: post #2

The weakness of centralized planning is what allowed the western way of life to dominate in a world where technology hampered its effectiveness. In this new world we may need to accept that our individualistic nature has become that very same weakness that dooms our way of life in the great game of life.

Maybe it's getting late, but I can't seem to parse your first sentence. What is the its you are referring to when you say technology hampered its effectiveness. Secondly, I don't believe it is widely accepted that our nature is individualistic . Individualism is a moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, social outlook.

[deleted]

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#12

Post by bdavisx »

cdmckay wrote: post #10
ngcc_hk wrote: post #9

[flagged]

Because everyone is just flourishing under the US world order.

I think the US ideals of freedom of speech/thought/religion are great, but unfortunately the US "ideal" of greed seems to be what the US is better at exporting.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#13

Post by 3o4xkp »

> The European Union is also worried about unfair competition from Chinese companies, which are controlled by the Chinese government and benefit from the state’s financial backing.

So... like many European companies and even entire sectors?

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#15

Post by Digory »

purple-again wrote: post #2

The weakness of centralized planning is what allowed the western way of life to dominate in a world where technology hampered its effectiveness. In this new world we may need to accept that our individualistic nature has become that very same weakness that dooms our way of life in the great game of life.

Centralized planning has all the same weaknesses it always did. It's a problem of distributed analysis, not a lack of data points.

Italy was something of model for alleged central planning efficiency in the last century. Now it's broke, taking money from the next credit-binging central planning state. It's credit, not proof of either side having superior economic policy.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#16

Post by throwawawua4234 »

Is there any knowledge on why East Asian Tiger economies do so well with state backing ?

The major takeaway from the 'Princes of Yen' by Richard Werner is about how Japan soared from a destroyed country to an economic powerhouse, before being brought down by the bankers at the BOJ, ostensibly to change the system from a 'state backed economy' to a US-styled one. Ditto with the Asian tigers in Thailand, S Korea etc.

Such managed-economies have failed miserably in many other places - notably in India. China seems to be following the path of its neighbors, however.

On a meta-level, I don't see what the big deal is TBH - whatever floats ones boat eh ? The argument about 'unfairness' is a bit of a joke, since it is well known that there are very deep (albeit hidden) connections/interests b/w state and corporations in Western nations.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#17

Post by ksec »

CptFribble wrote: post #8
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's getting late, but I can't seem to parse your first sentence. What is the its you are referring to when you say technology hampered its effectiveness. Secondly, I don't believe it is widely accepted that our nature is individualistic . Individualism is a moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, social outlook.

I think the GP means that central planning was hard to pull off without modern communication tech like phones and internet. So, the western style of federated semi-autonomous regions proliferated, since it didn't depend on strong central control. However, in the age of instant global communications, it may be that effective central planning is "better," or at least possible. And now, the individualistic model may not…

>However, in the age of instant global communications, it may be that effective central planning is "better," or at least possible.

And I will add one more thing other than instant global communication. Big Data. You can now have Data Real Time and see the Trend and changes being plotted in real time as well.

I also don't know what is the difference between Central Planning and Keynesian.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#18

Post by dghughes »

cl42 wrote: post #7

> The European Union is also worried about unfair competition from Chinese companies, which are controlled by the Chinese government and benefit from the state’s financial backing. EU leaders in Brussels are preparing a strategy to counter the growing influence of China, which they describe as a “systemic rival.” Most of the Western articles I've read express concern over Italy's involvement in the BRI. However, I am…

Look at Sri Lanka where nothing has been done except environmental disaster. Now Sri Lanka owes its soul, and land, to China. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/12/world/asia/sri-lanka-chin...

Montenegro has a bridge to nowhere built by Chinese workers instead of locals. Billions owed to China for a useless bridge. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-silkroad-europe-mon...

It seems to be China "invading" countries to gain territory only in a roundabout way. Like the Godfather China made an offer that couldn't be refused.

Re: Italy Joins China's New Silk Road Project

#19

Post by cdmckay »

purple-again wrote: post #2

The weakness of centralized planning is what allowed the western way of life to dominate in a world where technology hampered its effectiveness. In this new world we may need to accept that our individualistic nature has become that very same weakness that dooms our way of life in the great game of life.

If we are individualistic, then why do we organize ourselves into communities instead of living as lone wolves?

The truth is that humans are social creatures that prefer the company and support of other humans. The way we spread around the globe as hunter gatherers was through cooperation and mutual support. A lone wolf cannot support themselves if they are hurt, or sick, or lack a skill, or simply didn’t save enough food in hard times. But a community can.

So, I don’t think our nature is individualistic so much as capitalism is individualistic.

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