How the car industry hid the truth about diesel emissions

Post by xedeon » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC

akanet wrote: post #42

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "unfortunately"? Would it be better if every company that does a bad thing was forced to just close shop? If that be the case I'm pretty sure we'll have to shut down Tesla within a couple of years over their "Autopilot"/"Full Self Driving" claims.

"Do a bad thing" is a pretty major understatement of the degree of criminality we're talking about here. Over-representing the capabilities of Autopilot is a totally different thing that embedding a defeat device to defraud every national regulatory agency.

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 10:15 AM UTC

fulafel wrote: post #50

lb1lf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-speed trains are wonderful where the population density is sufficiently high, but in more sparsely populated parts, the car (and, for longer distances, the plane) is likely the only viable solution for decades to come. With that as a starting point, the cars and planes might as well be electric. (Or hydrogen powered!)

I think this reasoning pins down the wrong variables of the equation. You can pick your housing and location based on not owning a car (among other criteria). And it scales too. And for decision-makers it's responsible to nudge your citizenship to this direction.

Post by eertami » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 10:19 AM UTC

fulafel wrote: post #50

lb1lf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-speed trains are wonderful where the population density is sufficiently high, but in more sparsely populated parts, the car (and, for longer distances, the plane) is likely the only viable solution for decades to come. With that as a starting point, the cars and planes might as well be electric. (Or hydrogen powered!)

I think this reasoning pins down the wrong variables of the equation. You can pick your housing and location based on not owning a car (among other criteria). And it scales too. And for decision-makers it's responsible to nudge your citizenship to this direction.

Post by xedeon » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 10:32 AM UTC

close04 wrote: post #57

natch wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may have misread what Tesla says about these technologies. They state very clearly that FSD is not here yet, and they also are very clear about the limitations of Autopilot. The problem is that people (like you, for example) mistakenly assume there are “claims” beyond the statements that are made.

> They state very clearly They state it in the fineprint. This is what the Tesla Autopilot page used to say for years (this is a 1+ year old screenshot) [0]. Which part of that is accurate? How clear are they about the limitations and the real capabilities of the system? Tesla took the narrow areas where those systems can do a reasonably good job and extrapolated to the whole self-driving experience, blaming regulati…

Post by xedeon » Sat, Mar 23, 2019, 10:46 AM UTC

justasimpleman wrote: post #37

Yaggo wrote: post #15

European here. My next car will be electric, likely a Tesla. The dieselgate is the reason why I'm not even considering Volkswagen's upcoming 'ID' family of electric cars. I've similar feeling about the whole traditional auto industry.

My next car will be "no car at all". Even electric cars have huge externalities that you do not pay for, but your children, namely, the disposal of the batteries, pollution created by the manufacturing, costly extraction of rare earths etc. Instead we should heavily invest in high-speed trains.