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Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

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Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#111

Post by nate_meurer »

raincom wrote: post #88
nate_meurer wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, not healthy. You know what's more fucked up? Not long after I joined, just after the Sun acquisition, I learned that my previous company was dissolving, and I handed a dozen resumes to my then-director (different director from the one in my other comment; this was a guy who's no longer with Oracle). I don't take referrals lightly, because my reputation is at stake too. In this case, most of my former colleag…

I thought Oracle likes H1-B folks. Even Dept of Labor filed a lawsuit against Oracle alleging that Oracle underpays H1B employees.

Could be, I don't know. My view of the machine was very small.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#112

Post by PedroBatista »

shemnon42 wrote: post #98
luckydata wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's complete bullshit, hiring bonuses don't have to be repaid if they terminate you for any reason. They were trying to make you feel like the manager went to bat for you, which isn't the case.

Check your employment paperwork. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. To make you pay it back after just hiring is a jerk move, but not all executives are kind.

We are talking about Oracle here..

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#113

Post by gautamdivgi »

milemi wrote: post #82
Twirrim wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do you think Oracle has a chance at cloud? Honest question. Because Oracle still has an extremely large customer base, and an exceptionally good and extensive sales organisation that's really good at selling stuff to people. The enterprise market is still not that well tapped by existing cloud providers. Look at the kinds of sales figures enterprise serving companies pull in, and consider that only a smaller fr…

I feel so old because to me OCI means Oracle Call Interface, their DB client C API. I guess nobody cares that it may confuse people like me.

Oh wow... finally another person who has used it. I remember writing a C++ class library to wrap base OCI functions about 15 years ago.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#114

Post by patrickyeon »

john_moscow wrote: post #104
shemnon42 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check your employment paperwork. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. To make you pay it back after just hiring is a jerk move, but not all executives are kind.

Why would anyone sign a contract that makes them liable for the relocation expenses (that could be easily ~50K for intercontinental moves) based on a risk that is outside their control?

- Because they didn't read that part so closely.

- Because they read it closely but didn't interpret it correctly.

- Because they brought it up and their counterpart said "don't worry, that's boilerplate and we've never actually used that clause".

- Because the alternative was signing a contract that had no relocation/hiring bonus.

- Because they needed a job, and that's what was there.

- Because they really really needed a job to keep health insurance or their visa, and they had no leverage.

- Because they had leverage, but were too inexperienced in negotiations to realize it.

- Because they had leverage, but were not comfortable using it, and were taken advantage of.

There's lots of reasons, of varying quality, that someone may do something that seems ridiculous to you. Why are you implying that the (hypothetical) losing party here is the one who's done something wrong?

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#115

Post by thucydidesofusa »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #109
BurningFrog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H-1B situation, at least back in my day, is that formally you need a new job within X days, but in reality no one cares as long as you don't leave the country. If you're unsure/nervous, talk to an immigration lawyer. A 1 hour consultation is quite affordable.

It's not that simple. Whenever you report the exact dates of employment (which you can't easily fudge as they have to match with what the employer can / will attest to), such as for applying for a Green card, it will be clear that you have been in violation of status, in case you were out of work for >60 days. And then you are at the mercy of USCIS/DHS. You also have to attest that you have not been in violation of s…

I think we're well aware. Most of the H1-B criticism is about the nature of the visas, not some personal animosity against the visa holders.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#116

Post by rcdmd »

john_moscow wrote: post #105
cannonedhamster wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well they laid off the entire team, so that's unlikely. These are typically product pivots, not financial downsizings when it's entire teams.

They could have done it on the division level. Pad your org with a relatively useless team just before the forced 10% layoff and you've dodged the bullet.

Are you trolling? You're accusing management of onboarding an H1-B, paying a sign-on bonus, paying relocation expenses and then paying them for 2 months to surreptitiously "pad the relatively useless team" so you can initiate a layoff instead individual firings. Nope. Generally, firings at big corp go like this: 1. Create an improvement plan for your under-performing worker. 2. Evaluate worker based on that plan in 1 month. 3. Fire worker.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#117

Post by thucydidesofusa »

nate_meurer wrote: post #85
tuesdayrain wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of the three white guys I referred, two were hired. How's that for unhealthy? I feel like you're trying to turn this into a race or gender issue when that isn't necessarily relevant. Like your boss said, maybe he really does just prefer to hire Americans and the race/gender is irrelevant to him.

Yeah, no. One of the guys I referred had a green card, been here for years, started a family here. He has an Indian name, but he's as American as I am. Didn't matter. Boss wouldn't consider him. Edit: What you said is a reasonable proposition. Nationalism and racism can be distinct from one another. But in this case, given the treatment of my green-card bearing friend and the tone of the brief discussions I had with…

If someone is so nationalist that they make hiring decisions based on the needs of America, it's easy to imagine that they have a preference for citizens or better yet to the nationalist, natural born citizens.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#118

Post by BurningFrog »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #109
BurningFrog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The H-1B situation, at least back in my day, is that formally you need a new job within X days, but in reality no one cares as long as you don't leave the country. If you're unsure/nervous, talk to an immigration lawyer. A 1 hour consultation is quite affordable.

It's not that simple. Whenever you report the exact dates of employment (which you can't easily fudge as they have to match with what the employer can / will attest to), such as for applying for a Green card, it will be clear that you have been in violation of status, in case you were out of work for >60 days. And then you are at the mercy of USCIS/DHS. You also have to attest that you have not been in violation of s…

What the lawyers will inform you, is that there is the letter of the law, and the practical reality, and especially so in immigration law, they differ quite a lot.

> Before that, you would technically be in violation ...

The word technically is my point. Nobody was actually treated that way in reality, and lawyers know what's real and what's just theory.

My H1B info is second hand and 10+ year old, so don't take it at face value, but the same goes for what this kinkrtyavimoodh persona says :)

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#119

Post by patrickyeon »

pololee wrote: post #50
pololee wrote: post #47

I was one of the people being let go in this round. I moved to Seattle and joined OCI as a Senior Engineer at the end of Jan 2019. Yesterday when I came to the office and was doing my work at 9:00 AM, the whole team about 20 people were called by VP to have a meeting at 10:00 AM. He said the whole team got terminated. We had to turn in the computer by 12:00 PM and leave the office by 3:00 PM. There was no buffer time…

The VP also mentioned they were thinking about the plan in Jan. So why the hell did you hire me then? I joined at the end of Jan.

Hey friend, don't take it personally. A layoff indicates a failure (of planning, of budgeting, or whatever) at a much higher level of the organization than you

Your position may have been opened before the layoff decision was made, so they decided to leave it open so as not to raise suspicions (managers will rightfully get upset if headcount is taken away from them with no explanation). They might've know the number of people they needed to cull in January, but not decided where it would happen.

There's a lot of work in Seattle. If you're cunning maybe you can get a second hiring bonus in Q1 2019.

Re: Oracle Swings the Layoff Axe

#120

Post by Ericson2314 »

PedroBatista wrote: post #112
shemnon42 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check your employment paperwork. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. To make you pay it back after just hiring is a jerk move, but not all executives are kind.

We are talking about Oracle here..

And H-1B. I wouldn't put anything past that combination.
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