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Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

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Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#121
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does plethora of today's AAA titles for subtle details like particle effects, grass and others.

yes. but sprites (i.e. enemies and weapons) are the primary method of interaction with Doom. Grass and particle effects are secondary.... How many FPS AAA titles today use sprites for enemies and weapons?

Doesn't matter, to the Doom engine they are tall cubes , albeit with increasingly awful collision detection as the cubes increase in size.

Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#122

The original textures were done by Adrian Carmack. I think he's a genius as much as John. He was capable of making a difficult theme really work: a mix between dark future and fantasy. Specially fantasy with guns is terribly difficult and I don't recall having seen a game that succeeded in making that mix as well as the Quake series.

Maybe this isn't what you're talking about, but Bungie's game Destiny is a pretty great example of medieval fantasy transposed several thousand years into the future.

Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. but sprites (i.e. enemies and weapons) are the primary method of interaction with Doom. Grass and particle effects are secondary.... How many FPS AAA titles today use sprites for enemies and weapons?

Doesn't matter, to the Doom engine they are tall cubes , albeit with increasingly awful collision detection as the cubes increase in size.

So according to your definition Doom is a full 3d game, even though as a player I actually see 2D weapons and 2d enemies?

Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes. but sprites (i.e. enemies and weapons) are the primary method of interaction with Doom. Grass and particle effects are secondary.... How many FPS AAA titles today use sprites for enemies and weapons?

Funnily enough the sprite based enemies were a real strength for Doom compared to many of the fully 3D games that came out in the next generation, including Quake. Because rendering full 3D enemies was taxing for the hardware you couldn't put too many of them on the screen at once. In some games more than 2 or 3 would cause it to chug. So you only ever run across one or two enemies at once in the games, unlike Doom t…

Agreed. I think "Painkiller" is one of the few games that actually managed (much later) to put a healthy amount of enemies against you just like Doom did..

Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#125

The new lighting makes such a dramatic difference. Despite the same low polygon count, the levels seem much more lifelike. If all the game classics are re-released with raytracing engines, I will be all over it. The next years are going to be good.

I'm very skeptical. This is not just RTT; there's a big amount of rework. Likely, any old game would look significantly better with such development effort (in other words, with any good remastering). This could be considered a great market stunt - the graphical improvement is touted to be due to RTX (ray tracing), while it's actually due to many factors. On top of that, it misleads people into thinking that this typ…

I was thinking the same thing. They re-textured and enabled RTX. So it would be nice to see the new game turn RTX on / off and see whats the actual difference. Just that feature.

Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#126
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you consider a slide show "managing it", then sure.

My P200MMX with a Voodoo 2 managed it just fine.

It was more that Voodoo than the MMX. I tried playing some MMX "accelerated" games and it was a lo-fi slideshow.

I think the MMX era was the start of Intel's tradition of hyped up graphics related press releases followed by a total lack of execution.

Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Path tracing has huge wow factor. The problem with RTX is that on current gen hardware it runs at laughably low sample rates and the result is very noisy even after DLDN. Games are handling this by dialling the amplitude of RTX effects way down and having a smoothing pass. After all that is done, the wow effect is gone and you're just left with a more dynamic version of the same or worse aesthetics that we're already…

What's DLDN? I tried Googling it with some relevant keywords but it just brings me back to this comment.

Deep learning denoiser. I don't know if NVIDIA came up with some marketing term for it. It's what allows RTX to produce meaningful images at all despite the renderer running at 0.5-2 samples per pixel which looks little better than random noise. I kind of assumed they'd call it DLDN because they called their deep learning supersampling DLSS. I guess not, go figure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjjTPV2pXY0

Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#129

Is this ray tracing or path tracing? I'd think that real-time path tracing would still be hard/impossible in real-time considering the number of samples, but I'm not sure. People throw around these terms interchangeably which complicates the discussion, though the algorithms have notable departures from each other.

I thought path tracing was just ray tracing with additional random scatters traced, is it not?

In the realtime graphics world,

Ray tracing = initiate rays from light sources, bounce them around, accumulate them on camera. This is accurate but incredibly inefficient. This is how pre-baked light mapping and GI works.

Path tracing = initiate rays from camera, induce bounce rays toward light sources. Not quite as accurate but orders of magnitude mode efficient in terms of producing an acceptable image.

Re: Quake II RTX: Re-Engineering a Classic with Ray Tracing Effects on Vulkan

#130
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you consider a slide show "managing it", then sure.

My P200MMX with a Voodoo 2 managed it just fine.

Glide, man, such a great era for PC gaming if you had the right equipment.

I'll never forgive the computer store guy when I was 14 who pushed me to buy the $40 cheaper S3 Trio3D instead of the Voodoo. Instead of something useful, I ended up with a glorified paperweight that only worked well for Direct3D. Guess how many games back then bothered to use that?

I think I got Quake 1 with some shitty hacked MiniGL driver working _once_.

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