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At $75K, housing a prisoner in California now costs more than a year at Harvard

latimes.com

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Re: At $75K, housing a prisoner in California now costs more than a year at Harvard

#231

Post by dragonwriter »

muzani wrote: post #187
digianarchist wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7 years for something that would have probably gotten him 6-12 months in Europe/Canada. When are the Americans going to realise you can't punitively punish someone and not reap of profound negative consequences (re-offending, home-breaking etc.).

It's not just punitive. Some (not all) people are broken, unfixable, and dangerous. The idea is to just isolate them from society.

> Some (not all) people are broken, unfixable, and dangerous.

Yes, in many cases because of their exposure to our prison system.

Re: At $75K, housing a prisoner in California now costs more than a year at Harvard

#232

Post by gnulinux »

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #204
dragonwriter wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By "an activist group" I mean people who confuse work with slavery. You mean, people who confuse forced work with slavery.

I think that depends on definition of "forced". If I stop working, I'll get kicked out of my house and will probably die of hunger. Does it mean I am forced to work?

> Does it mean I am forced to work?

Absolutely yes. You told it yourself, if you stop working you're going to die from hunger. In what sense can you argue "you're free not to work"?

Re: At $75K, housing a prisoner in California now costs more than a year at Harvard

#233

Post by swebs »

silvestrov wrote: post #70
throwaway13337 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. None of the things you listed are anywhere near a free market in the US. You've created a compelling argument against government intervention, actually. 2. I agree with the second point. The US government officially does, too. Prison should be about rehabilitation and not retribution. It's just that the government doesn't act like it agrees.

So why isn't it a free market in the USA when free markets is clearly seen as the way things should be? Why doesn't lack of free market trigger a demand for reform of the sectors but only hand-waving excuses/acceptance? When credit card companies in Europe started to price gouge with high fees the EU responded by putting a cap on fees. Why does the US government not respond by putting a cap on prices for hospital tre…

>So why isn't it a free market in the USA when free markets is clearly seen as the way things should be?

I don't think anyone is really saying that except for the most extreme neoliberals.

Re: At $75K, housing a prisoner in California now costs more than a year at Harvard

#234

Post by diegoholiveira »

Prison is a protection to society from individuals that prove they can't live in society. This is the goal of prison: protect who is outside.

Prison is not punishment.

Prison is not rehabilitation (although this is desirable and we should definitely try it).

Re: At $75K, housing a prisoner in California now costs more than a year at Harvard

#236

Post by golergka »

jordanbeiber wrote: post #174
golergka wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s about providing the best standard of life to as many individuals as possible Which is also a nice thing to have but definitely not the main objective for people on "my" political side. Main argument for privatising stuff is not being optimal or not: it's the principle of making the government, which is the only entity with monopoly on violence, as weak and as small as possible. Think about it as a microkernel…

In the end it’s all down to people. Elected people in government or not so elected entrepreneurs. Pick you poison. :) Violence is a consequence of many factors, and in a decent democracy having it monopolized with the governement we have elected is probably a good thing. The great thing is that we have history as a reference and I think we should use it. I’m not aiming for the extremes here, but rather life and livin…

> Elected people in government or not so elected entrepreneurs.

I'll pick different entities competing with one another over a monolith.

> Violence is a consequence of many factors, and in a decent democracy having it monopolized with the governement we have elected is probably a good thing.

Never said it wasn't. But the entity that monopolizes it should be as small as possible.

> Why is the worlds most happy nations also the ones taxed the highest, and as such have the biggest government influences?

Same reason you would probably find the biggest tumors in people with the healthiest lifestyles: they would kill others at much earlier stages.

Re: At $75K, housing a prisoner in California now costs more than a year at Harvard

#237

Post by ams6110 »

arbuge wrote: post #218
digianarchist wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7 years for something that would have probably gotten him 6-12 months in Europe/Canada. When are the Americans going to realise you can't punitively punish someone and not reap of profound negative consequences (re-offending, home-breaking etc.).

> 7 years for something that would have probably gotten him 6-12 months in Europe/Canada. Perhaps but in most states, since this would be a state crime, he'd only spend a small fraction of that time actually in prison.

And likely not his first offense. GP mentions he was already in the juvenile system. Chances are he had a few other adult minor offenses already also, and when he got caught again, this time in a clearly planned and deliberate ongoing burglary ring, he got the book thrown at him.

Re: At $75K, housing a prisoner in California now costs more than a year at Harvard

#240

Post by Nasrudith »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #199
avenius wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC incarceration was a method started by christian monks, and the intention was that the incarcerated would use the time to reflect and contemplate his crimes - a form of rehabilitation. As you say, that certainly isn't what's happening today. Instead it gives criminals a broader network, and my impression is that it works sort of like a "crime school". But the US method of privatizing and profiteering off of impri…

The Bible records Joseph as being put in prison in Egypt c.1500 BCE. Peter is imprisoned in the NT c.30 CE. Perhaps you meant incarceration with a view to rehabilitation?

Prison in the past wasn't very long term without any slavery - with agricultural scale having people not doing any work wasn't affordable. Hold until the judge gets there or they decide what to do with them unless they are say nobility elite wealthy or otherwise able to justify the expense (ransom or a hostage).

Egypt would be in a good situation for that given seasonality and nile flooding giving better yields.

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