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Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#151

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

duxup wrote: post #39
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange legal choices wrt to the SEC? Just wait for the judge decision: the SEC is in a clear overreach here, as all the tweets they cited in their filing are non material. They even misquoted the tweet to say "500K" instead of " about 500K" and anyone can add up the previsouly published numbers to conclude the company should reach a runrate of 500K at the end of the year (Musk tweeted nothing new, it was already dis…

It's a strange legal choice when you could just not tweet stuff that any lawyer would tell you not to, first to get in trouble, then to extend it...

Unless it gives Tesla/Musk the opportunity to prove that the SEC is abusive and get a judge to formalize this.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#152

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

techntoke wrote: post #146
dd36 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the complaint is filed then Tesla can provide an answer and the SEC a reply to that answer. A reply is usually brief and reiterates points made in the original complaint. Here, however, the SEC introduced new arguments in its reply. This usually happens because the defendant's answer was strong. Therefore, the SEC seemingly believed its original complaint was insufficient. As such, the SEC is at a higher probabili…

I swear people think he is in a wrestling match or beauty contest. Musk was in clear violation of his settlement and if this was a poor person on probation, they would be thrown back in jail. The only thing keeping Musk safe is his brand recognition and money to keep fighting in the courts.

>Musk was in clear violation of his settlement

You didn't read any of the papers submitted to the judge, did you? You gotta prove that saying "production of about 500" is a material information, when you already disclosed that production should reach 150+350.

Sure the SEC say that 500 is new to them, although they were already aware of 150+350.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#153

Post by dd36 »

techntoke wrote: post #146
dd36 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the complaint is filed then Tesla can provide an answer and the SEC a reply to that answer. A reply is usually brief and reiterates points made in the original complaint. Here, however, the SEC introduced new arguments in its reply. This usually happens because the defendant's answer was strong. Therefore, the SEC seemingly believed its original complaint was insufficient. As such, the SEC is at a higher probabili…

I swear people think he is in a wrestling match or beauty contest. Musk was in clear violation of his settlement and if this was a poor person on probation, they would be thrown back in jail. The only thing keeping Musk safe is his brand recognition and money to keep fighting in the courts.

The burden of proof is on the SEC. The settlement agreement’s language and the policy that Tesla enacted as a result - that the SEC approved - allows Musk to do exactly what he did. Read the legal briefs. Have you ever been in a court of law? Facts matter. Case law matters. Prior communications between the parties matter.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#154

Post by ineedasername »

zaroth wrote: post #133
ineedasername wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, because I've never used an autopilot feature and have virtually no commute: if you have to watch it so vigilantly, what is the appeal or practical value?

It changes the way I drive. I don't focus on making minor adjustments to keep the vehicle centered in the lane. I don't need to predominantly look far down the lane to try to keep my peripheral vision maximized, and only take cursory glances around, like I would if I was actively steering. I don't worry about drifting out of the lane if I'm looking at something in the next lane over or in the rear-view for a moment.…

Very interesting, thank you. I think the comparison to airplane autopilot is apt. At that industry did go through a period of readjustment, where autopilot contributed to a lack of attention/readiness. Those systems have been tweaked over the years to mitigate that risk. Cars will undoubtedly have to go through the same growth. Makes me wonder if special training should be required for drivers of such cars before we get to L3-L4 self driving capabilities. You sound responsible in your use though.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#155

Post by ineedasername »

shaklee3 wrote: post #147
ineedasername wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, shitting on Tesla for something like the fatal crashes where autopilot played a role does have a certain appeal. But at the same time, when they released their $35k vehicle I was still cheering them on too.

Except... It wasn't $35k anywhere but on paper. You had to buy the upgrades.

Do you mean in the past? I'm talking about their recent release in February. I can order one now, $35k, no mandatory upgrades that increase the price, delivery in 6-8 weeks.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#156

Post by nwah1 »

Xorlev wrote: post #47
jeltz wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not describe many open source projects as designed-by-committee, and while open source might be less suited for exploratory research there have been quite many novel things first implemented in open source projects. Look at the various video codecs or the innovations in compiler technology gcc has contributed to, or the plenty of innovations made in various open source databases.

Much of the Apache foundation projects come to mind when thinking about the GP's assertion, though certainly it doesn't hold for all projects: many are fairly novel and exploratory.

There are a number of them like git and bitcoin which start out with one guy building a novel algorithm and then releasing the source to the world afterwards.

The definition of open source might include such a thing, but a project that originates from a lone genius rather than a community is not what is usually meant when people speak of open source.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#157

Post by mdorazio »

dd36 wrote: post #144
mdorazio wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When body panels don't line up, doors don't close properly without slamming them, and your infotainment system randomly bugs out (all issues I saw when borrowing a Model 3), your vehicle manufacturer cut corners. Meanwhile my distinct impression of interior quality when sitting in one is that it's basically a mass market car with a leather option, not a luxury price point vehicle. And no, scaling issues are absolutel…

So existing manufacturers ship flawless vehicles?

It's really annoying when you twist commenters' words to suit your agenda and go straight to logical fallacies. I'll ask you to please stop doing that. No, existing manufacturers do not ship 100% flawless vehicles, but the average build quality of the ones they actually sell to customers is significantly higher than what Tesla is pushing out with Model 3. A five second Google search for "Model 3 Quality" will show you this.

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#158

Post by dd36 »

mdorazio wrote: post #157
dd36 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So existing manufacturers ship flawless vehicles?

It's really annoying when you twist commenters' words to suit your agenda and go straight to logical fallacies. I'll ask you to please stop doing that. No, existing manufacturers do not ship 100% flawless vehicles, but the average build quality of the ones they actually sell to customers is significantly higher than what Tesla is pushing out with Model 3. A five second Google search for "Model 3 Quality" will show yo…

His argument was some vehicles had flaws and that can be avoided. Who avoids it? That's not even a partial twist.

Moreover, both of your responses ignore my original point of customer satisfaction. If this were a major problem, why would they have among the highest satisfaction?

https://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-consumer-reports-owner-s...

How do you reconcile those positions? All Tesla buyers are so blinded by the cult of Musk that they tell everyone their car that they hate is great?

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#159

Post by xedeon »

The amount of vitriol against Tesla here is insane. Just the fact that incumbent car manufacturers are now seriously considering electric cars after decades of ignorance because of Tesla is a great win for humanity.

Virtually all tech companies have missteps and Tesla is no exception. Let's look at the big picture here in what Tesla is trying to do.

We had Solar panels installed with a Tesla powerwall and did home efficiency improvements and are now pretty much self sufficient (includes charging our vehicles). Think about that for a second.

Meanwhile. We have Facebook, Google, Netflix, Amazon and even Apple just cater to our desires for consumerism and endless distraction with some of them even trampling user privacy. But hey, let's all trash everything about Tesla because it's the hip thing to do right?

Re: Tesla sues former employees for allegedly stealing data, Autopilot source code

#160

Post by xedeon »

vabmit wrote: post #69

This tactic has been used against companies friends of mine have started. I've only seen it used by large 20+ year old 1970s/1980s publicly traded companies, never someone like Tesla. The way it works is basically that you track where your ex-employees go after they leave. If they go to a competitor/disruptor start-up with out deep pockets, sue that competitor over trade secrets. It's nearly impossible to disprove in…

> I am shorting TSLA stock

Then you are financially motivated to spew lies. Short sellers are probably the scummiest people on the planet, that will do anything to make a quick buck.

Take this for example: http://www.cc.com/video-clips/rfag2r/the-daily-show-with-jon...

> I expect Tesla to go bankrupt sometime in the next few years.

Short sellers have been saying that since 2008 because it serves their interest. Yet, here we are a full decade later.

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