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So you want your app/website to work in China

chanind.github.io

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Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#61

Post by spectramax »

apostacy wrote: post #55
spectramax wrote: post #47

I don't want to live in a world where the next superpower blocks websites as they suit them, suppress freedom of speech and journalism, exploit prisoners, religious segregation camps, employing social dystopian systems and is led by unimpeachable, unchallenged leader who has elected himself with a 1000-0 vote as perpetual president of the country. It is sad to see that the rest of the world has to bend down to serve…

> suppress freedom of speech, and journalism, ... We've lost the right to complain about Chinese censorship. We actually owe the Chinese an apology for criticizing them. They've clearly been vindicated for the 21st century. When New Zealand and Australia blocked some of the most popular websites on the Internet at the backbone, I think that was the last straw for the west making any claims to having the moral high gr…

I was afraid that my comment will turn into USA vs. China. or _____ vs. China. That is all we do here on HN. Every single time anyone criticizes China, there is a preposterous tendency to "soften" the criticism by showing examples of other countries doing one or two things - pick and choose your favorite thing.

I am honestly frustrated with openly criticizing a regime, doesn't matter who, without resorting to comparisons. I almost put a disclaimer on my comment to avoid rat-hole'ing into ____ vs China comments.

Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#63

Post by [deleted] »

spectramax wrote: post #61
apostacy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> suppress freedom of speech, and journalism, ... We've lost the right to complain about Chinese censorship. We actually owe the Chinese an apology for criticizing them. They've clearly been vindicated for the 21st century. When New Zealand and Australia blocked some of the most popular websites on the Internet at the backbone, I think that was the last straw for the west making any claims to having the moral high gr…

I was afraid that my comment will turn into USA vs. China. or _____ vs. China. That is all we do here on HN. Every single time anyone criticizes China, there is a preposterous tendency to "soften" the criticism by showing examples of other countries doing one or two things - pick and choose your favorite thing. I am honestly frustrated with openly criticizing a regime, doesn't matter who, without resorting to compari…

[deleted]

Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#64

Post by cltsang »

apostacy wrote: post #55
spectramax wrote: post #47

I don't want to live in a world where the next superpower blocks websites as they suit them, suppress freedom of speech and journalism, exploit prisoners, religious segregation camps, employing social dystopian systems and is led by unimpeachable, unchallenged leader who has elected himself with a 1000-0 vote as perpetual president of the country. It is sad to see that the rest of the world has to bend down to serve…

> suppress freedom of speech, and journalism, ... We've lost the right to complain about Chinese censorship. We actually owe the Chinese an apology for criticizing them. They've clearly been vindicated for the 21st century. When New Zealand and Australia blocked some of the most popular websites on the Internet at the backbone, I think that was the last straw for the west making any claims to having the moral high gr…

This comparison is just like comparing apple to orange to me. When a company blocks you, you could just voice your opinion on another platform. It's an open internet afterall. But if it's the government, the center of all power, that blocks you, you just have no other way. That is the difference of having and not having freedom of speech. If the people are really concerned about Google's and Apple's business with Saudi Government, they have the freedom to go for the third option. It may seem difficult but it's totally possible and viable. But under an authoritarian regime like China, even the freedom choice is an illusion.

Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#65

Post by spectramax »

Razengan wrote: post #57
spectramax wrote: post #47

I don't want to live in a world where the next superpower blocks websites as they suit them, suppress freedom of speech and journalism, exploit prisoners, religious segregation camps, employing social dystopian systems and is led by unimpeachable, unchallenged leader who has elected himself with a 1000-0 vote as perpetual president of the country. It is sad to see that the rest of the world has to bend down to serve…

Perhaps, developers who have taken a moral stance should put a notice on their websites/services against authoritarian governments, when accessed from those countries.

I agree, instead of "giving in", we as technologists should take the opportunity to provide some context as to why our website is not working as intended.

But, all bets are all if you lose significant share of your business as morality takes a backseat when it comes to profitability, market share and business goals.

Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#66

Post by Leary »

spectramax wrote: post #47

I don't want to live in a world where the next superpower blocks websites as they suit them, suppress freedom of speech and journalism, exploit prisoners, religious segregation camps, employing social dystopian systems and is led by unimpeachable, unchallenged leader who has elected himself with a 1000-0 vote as perpetual president of the country. It is sad to see that the rest of the world has to bend down to serve…

And making your app/website work in China is gonna change any of this how?

Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#67

Post by majia »

Razengan wrote: post #57
spectramax wrote: post #47

I don't want to live in a world where the next superpower blocks websites as they suit them, suppress freedom of speech and journalism, exploit prisoners, religious segregation camps, employing social dystopian systems and is led by unimpeachable, unchallenged leader who has elected himself with a 1000-0 vote as perpetual president of the country. It is sad to see that the rest of the world has to bend down to serve…

Perhaps, developers who have taken a moral stance should put a notice on their websites/services against authoritarian governments, when accessed from those countries.

It’s better to put some vpn resources on their websites. Don’t tell people what is “bad” like authoritarian governments do; let them see what’s beyond the firewall and decide for themselves.

Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#68

Post by tedk-42 »

realusername wrote: post #20
saagarjha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no internet in China anyway Uh, what?

China just has a local Intranet and when you are lucky (and increasingly luckier every year) you can access some small websites on the Internet.

No it's not an intranet. Chinese people still connect to the internet.

They've got a firewall around their whole country, not unlike any firewall a corporation might put up to prevent their employees from accessing content the company disagrees with (like viewing pornography/4chan from the network).

Sounds like you need educating on the differences.

Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#69

Post by serf »

Leary wrote: post #66
spectramax wrote: post #47

I don't want to live in a world where the next superpower blocks websites as they suit them, suppress freedom of speech and journalism, exploit prisoners, religious segregation camps, employing social dystopian systems and is led by unimpeachable, unchallenged leader who has elected himself with a 1000-0 vote as perpetual president of the country. It is sad to see that the rest of the world has to bend down to serve…

And making your app/website work in China is gonna change any of this how?

More groups of people cope with restrictions, more momentum towards doing so; less protest against it.

it's a pretty simple idea. If you work within a framework, you're complicit by default.

You can look at it two ways : You're helping the folks in China; or you're helping the world's largest walled garden remain that way by adding content.

Re: So you want your app/website to work in China

#70

Post by Razengan »

spectramax wrote: post #65
Razengan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, developers who have taken a moral stance should put a notice on their websites/services against authoritarian governments, when accessed from those countries.

I agree, instead of "giving in", we as technologists should take the opportunity to provide some context as to why our website is not working as intended. But, all bets are all if you lose significant share of your business as morality takes a backseat when it comes to profitability, market share and business goals.

Then we should own up to the fact that the world is basically a plutocracy now, at all levels of society, and drop all pretenses to the contrary.
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