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Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

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Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#71
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK If you have PAL license, RCMP runs background checks on you daily and revoke the license as soon as anything comes up.

That kind of background checking would not have stopped many of the mass shooters.

I was replying to the comment implying that you can buy rifle without background check. To be fair no amount of government restrictions and bans will stop the mass shooter who really wants to become one. There are a lot of illegal guns getting to Canada from US.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it did and continues to. Let’s not be defeatist and actually try instead.

And yet it did and continues to. Sorry, but your logic doesn't hold up. You said, "Probably because most guns are illegal so we don’t need them." Since Canada has ready availability of semi-auto long guns, has relatively relaxed gun laws, and even licensing and daily background checks would not have stopped all mass shooters, your logic that such drills are therefore not necessary is empty and illogical. You cannot p…

There are licensing requirements with continuous daily background checks. The results speak for themselves. Throwing up your hands and saying it’ll never work without trying it is tantamount to accepting the status quo. None of that is okay.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#73
post #38

Why not have school-wide martial arts training or something instead? Empower the populace, and discourage people from attempting it in the first place. "An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure" as they say... These shelter in place drills are addressing a symptom, and not the cause of violence.

Martial arts are pretty useless when some nut has an assault rifle and other firearms at hand. This isn't a Hollywood movie.

A Hollywood caricature of martial arts might be useless. But my understanding of some martial arts is that they emphasize keeping a cool head, awareness of surroundings, deescalation and evasion over violent confrontation. Being even somewhat competent in those skills could prove valuable in an active shooter situation.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it did and continues to. Sorry, but your logic doesn't hold up. You said, "Probably because most guns are illegal so we don’t need them." Since Canada has ready availability of semi-auto long guns, has relatively relaxed gun laws, and even licensing and daily background checks would not have stopped all mass shooters, your logic that such drills are therefore not necessary is empty and illogical. You cannot p…

There are licensing requirements with continuous daily background checks. The results speak for themselves. Throwing up your hands and saying it’ll never work without trying it is tantamount to accepting the status quo. None of that is okay.

There are licensing requirements with continuous daily background checks. The results speak for themselves.

California has pretty much this, and in implementation is much stricter than Canada. The result? There are mass shootings here as well as lots of urban gun violence.

New Zealand already has stricter gun laws than many places in the US.

Throwing up your hands and saying it’ll never work without trying it is tantamount to accepting the status quo. None of that is okay.

The government unilaterally taking away the rights of innocent people shouldn't be okay. If it's okay with someone, then it means they're okay with stomping on the human rights of people they don't like.

I'd rather have individual rights and armed guards in the schools and places of worship.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#75
post #2

The panicked, reckless nonsense of "active shooter drills" is eventually going to get someone actually killed. (Compare: the DEA agent who shot himself while talking to a classroom about gun safety: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNa5n2I_DUw https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/safety-first/ )

Related, about 1 month after Parkland:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/03/14/593531945...

"A 17-year-old student was struck in the neck, according to his father, Fermin Gonzales III, who spoke to Monterey County Weekly. "He was going to go to his next class, but he was pulling out metal fragments," Gonzales said of his son. "It was a soft metal." "Nobody from the office came in and looked at what had happened," he alleged." (Struck in the neck from shrapnel, fyi)

"In a series of tweets, he (Donny) said, "20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to ... immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions ... Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A 'gun free' school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!""

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#76
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Er, no "most guns are illegal" is not at all true in Canada. Canada's gun laws are arguably looser than some US states. Plenty of "assault weapons" are non restricted rifles in Canada: https://tillsonburggunshop.com/Firearms-guns-Rifles-Shotgun-... You just need a PAL to buy them. No background check at the time of sale, and no registration. By comparison, here in California owning most of these guns would get you a…

AFAIK If you have PAL license, RCMP runs background checks on you daily and revoke the license as soon as anything comes up.

You have to pass a background check to get a PAL. There's no background check at the time of sale for non restricted guns. "Runs background checks daily" is kind of correct. Your PAL is revoked if you commit a crime that would disqualify you from getting a PAL.

This is distinct from restricted firearms (mostly handguns) where a new background check is performed each time you buy a restricted firearms.

In California, all firearms save for some really old ones are treated like restricted rifles in Canada. You have to get a background check and wait 10 days for every purchase even if you already own a dozen guns. Plus there are a bunch of rules about the shape of the grip, whether it has a for grip, the shape of the muzzle brake, and whether or not the stock folds that can make guns felonies to possess.

All guns (save for the aforementioned muzzle loader) are registered in California. Well, technically not registered because to do so is a violation of Federal law. But the State does log every firearm brought into the state, every firearm bought, and every firearm transferred. So basically a registry in everything but name.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are licensing requirements with continuous daily background checks. The results speak for themselves. Throwing up your hands and saying it’ll never work without trying it is tantamount to accepting the status quo. None of that is okay.

There are licensing requirements with continuous daily background checks. The results speak for themselves. California has pretty much this, and in implementation is much stricter than Canada. The result? There are mass shootings here as well as lots of urban gun violence. New Zealand already has stricter gun laws than many places in the US. Throwing up your hands and saying it’ll never work without trying it is tant…

>>> California.

It’s much easier to bring in illicit firearms across unmonitored state lines than national boundaries.

>>> I'd rather have individual rights and armed guards in the schools and places of worship.

Horrifying.

So taking away everyone’s right to feel safe and secure? Wonderful. And to be alive. That’s the problem, life is always trade offs. I don’t feel comfortable with everyone armed, that infringed on my rights. Any other country that took away guns, gun crime went down, that’s facts. The reality is you don’t need guns. I don’t need guns. I do however want to live. And I want my children to grow up in a country without mass shooter drills and metal detectors so you can pursue your hobby, because 300 years ago a few people thought everyone should have muskets and slaves. Constitutions are amendable for a reason.

Sounds like that trade off is just better.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#78
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That kind of background checking would not have stopped many of the mass shooters.

I was replying to the comment implying that you can buy rifle without background check. To be fair no amount of government restrictions and bans will stop the mass shooter who really wants to become one. There are a lot of illegal guns getting to Canada from US.

There is no background check at the time of sale for non restricted rifles or shotguns. This is compares to restricted firearms (handguns and some types of rifles) that do require background checks at the time of sale. The "background check every day" statement is somewhat correct in that someone's PAL is invalidated if the commit a crime, or get divorced. As far as I know that's what's referred to by daily background checks. I am almost certain that background checks are not actually peformed every day, that would be a massive amount of labor.

This in contrast to California where all firearms sales other than black powder muzzle loader have backgry checks run every time someone buys them.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#79

Why not have school-wide martial arts training or something instead? Empower the populace, and discourage people from attempting it in the first place. "An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure" as they say... These shelter in place drills are addressing a symptom, and not the cause of violence.

It's not about preparing anyone. The (sometimes unannounced) murder drills are about learned helplessness. I know of instances where it was done to special-needs students.

I find it difficult to articulate how much it pisses me off. Teachers are each responsible for a priceless group of people, if they individually would like the option to defend themselves and their students they should get the proper training and carry a firearm.

Re: Teachers unknowingly shot with plastic pellets during active shooter drills

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are licensing requirements with continuous daily background checks. The results speak for themselves. California has pretty much this, and in implementation is much stricter than Canada. The result? There are mass shootings here as well as lots of urban gun violence. New Zealand already has stricter gun laws than many places in the US. Throwing up your hands and saying it’ll never work without trying it is tant…

>>> California. It’s much easier to bring in illicit firearms across unmonitored state lines than national boundaries. >>> I'd rather have individual rights and armed guards in the schools and places of worship. Horrifying. So taking away everyone’s right to feel safe and secure? Wonderful. And to be alive. That’s the problem, life is always trade offs. I don’t feel comfortable with everyone armed, that infringed on…

It’s much easier to bring in illicit firearms across unmonitored state lines than national boundaries.

You haven't heard the tales of Minnesota bootleggers and mobsters. (Directly relevant to Canada.) National borders don't mean that much to criminals. This includes illegal firearms trafficking.

Horrifying.

My family has direct experience with Leftists who take away individual rights for the sake of the group. My mother and oldest uncle had to be smuggled for hours in a pitch black compartment of a freighter to escape. That's horrifying. War is horrifying, because that's what came soon after.

It's orders of magnitude more likely you'll die in a car crash than die from an active shooter scenario.

So taking away everyone’s right to feel safe and secure? Wonderful. And to be alive.

Sorry, but none of that makes sense. Many of the states with the most lax gun laws have the lowest levels of violence.

The reality is you don’t need guns. I don’t need guns.

I dialed 911 once. It malfunctioned. I called from a neighbor's. I wound up with a bloody face and stitches. The police in their SUV drove past my house to the wrong address, driving right past me waving my arms with blood streaming down my face. This was in addition to their arriving way too late. "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

One of my housemates had a direct experience with preventing a mugging, because the potential assailant figured out he had a weapon.

"Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/03/20/any-study-...

Sounds like that trade off is just better.

Restricting the guns won't take the means to kill away from determined nutjobs and criminals. However, every day it's in action, it will take away the means for tens of thousands of innocent law abiding citizens to protect themselves, while creating the precedent of the government stomping on their property and 2nd amendment rights.

Sorry, but your "logic" sounds like something ignorant kids would write.

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