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Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

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Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#11
post #5

Intellectual property is a misnomer, or at least a weaker form of property. It's not about free speech, but rather about the particulars of owning an idea which may reside in another mind. Calling it theft outright is framing the question. Of course people are against theft , but if their ideas of theft are different, they are referring to different things. Furthermore, there are three distinct cases where IP is unde…

IP refers to database rights, too (most similar to copyrights, but distinct from it).

Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#12
post #11
post #5

Intellectual property is a misnomer, or at least a weaker form of property. It's not about free speech, but rather about the particulars of owning an idea which may reside in another mind. Calling it theft outright is framing the question. Of course people are against theft , but if their ideas of theft are different, they are referring to different things. Furthermore, there are three distinct cases where IP is unde…

IP refers to database rights, too (most similar to copyrights, but distinct from it).

What are database rights?

Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#13
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP refers to database rights, too (most similar to copyrights, but distinct from it).

What are database rights?

A form of copyright on a collection of facts. In the U.S., the famous "telephone books aren't copyrightable" case (Feist v. Rural) held that mere compilations of facts aren't copyrightable, because they aren't a creative work, and copyright is intended to protect only original, creative works. Collections with some degree of creativity in the selection and arrangement might count, but an alphabetical listing of all people in an area code with their phone numbers was held not to possess any creativity.

Other countries have more of a "sweat of the brow" view of copyright, that it's intended to protect any work that took effort to produce, so even a compilation of mere facts could be copyrightable, if it took a lot of effort to compile them. The EU now has a separate pseudo-copyright for databases that wouldn't otherwise be copyrightable (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Database_Directive).

The main people pushing that are, as you might guess, those who have amassed a lot of data that isn't protected by normal copyright. For example, stock-ticker data is not copyrightable (it's just a mechanical listing of facts), and the companies that make a lot of money licensing it aren't happy about that.

Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#15
I'm sorry people copy your stuff.

I'm not one to tell someone else how to run their business but could it be that relying on fragile concepts such as "Intellectual Property" are not a good method for gaining the ability to control and profit from your labors?

Personally I've always relied largely on the reputation I've built up for being able to solve the problems of my clients but your mileage may vary.

I hope you find a solution to your problems, it's not fair if you work really hard at something and get nothing back for your effort.

Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#16
I haven't seen any evidence that people here are "pro-piracy" but concerning your first paragraph I'll argue one reason for why many software developers may not be terribly thrilled with the current notion of "intellectual property".

The majority of software developers are employees of corporations. As such they typically receive only a small fraction of the economic benefit derived from the value they create. The current economic system simply does not allocate benefits proportionally to created value. This fact will worsen as technology continues to increase the efficiency of labor. By the 20's millions of people will be losing their jobs to automation (probably not programmers, that will take a few more decades) and labor, the primary mechanism society has for distributing wealth, will essentially cease to exist.

I don't know what will happen at that point but it is clear to me that the current system is unsustainable.

Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#17

I'm sorry people copy your stuff. I'm not one to tell someone else how to run their business but could it be that relying on fragile concepts such as "Intellectual Property" are not a good method for gaining the ability to control and profit from your labors? Personally I've always relied largely on the reputation I've built up for being able to solve the problems of my clients but your mileage may vary. I hope you f…

"I hope you find a solution to your problems, it's not fair if you work really hard at something and get nothing back for your effort."

That implies I could spend a year writing a million godawful poems and it would be unfair not to pay me for them.

Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#18

I'm sorry people copy your stuff. I'm not one to tell someone else how to run their business but could it be that relying on fragile concepts such as "Intellectual Property" are not a good method for gaining the ability to control and profit from your labors? Personally I've always relied largely on the reputation I've built up for being able to solve the problems of my clients but your mileage may vary. I hope you f…

"I hope you find a solution to your problems, it's not fair if you work really hard at something and get nothing back for your effort." That implies I could spend a year writing a million godawful poems and it would be unfair not to pay me for them.

I'm sorry you feel that your poetry isn't any good yet.

I think it was Orson Scott Card who said that everyone has about a million words of garbage in them they have to get out before they can write well.

Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#19
I'm not pro-piracy, but I don't see it as an offense as serious as stealing either.

In my opinion, copyrights and patents are the things that discourage innovation, not 'piracy'. They make it unnecessarily difficult to do anything, especially for smaller companies, because almost everything is encumbered in a complex web of cross-licensing. This makes it no longer about leading in technology, but about hiring tons of expensive lawyers.

Invention is not about protecting what has been. It's about staying ahead.

Re: Why do many programmers defend/support intellectual property theft?

#20
I don't think the attitude is so much pro-piracy as anti-regulation and pro-getting-stuff-done. Hackers tend to be naturally averse to the two traditional means of combating piracy: government regulation and DRM. Government regulation requires bureaucracy, which hackers hate. DRM creates obstacles to getting stuff done, which hackers also hate.

I agree that piracy is probably a big enough problem to make the aforementioned potential solutions a lesser evil. But I doubt there's any way the hacker community will accept that.

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