Live data from Hacker News

A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

rootsmusic.ca

81–90 of 248 posts

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#81

> However, with a sampling rate of 44,000 samples per second, there were overtones of sound now missing. Human hearing only goes up to 20 kHz when you are young, dropping to about 12 kHz at the age of 50. 44 kHz sampling gives a Nyquist frequency of 22 kHz, easily encompassing the full range of human hearing. Any overtones that are missing in the recording are overtones that didn't make it through the human ear in th…

> Any overtones that are missing in the recording are overtones that didn't make it through the human ear in the first place.

Even if human beings cannot hear higher frequencies directly, they can hear the beats produced when higher frequencies sound at the same time as lower, directly audible ones. This has sometimes been exploited for musical purposes and I do wonder if this plays some role in some listeners’ feeling that low-bitrate encoding or speaker playback lacks oomph.

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#82
post #6

For all of human history, we've been making music and art. And for almost all of that time, it was done for love of doing, not money. For a few hundred years, there was the patronage era, where if you were really good you could get a rich person to feed and clothe and house you while you made art. Or you traveled around giving performances for money or food or clothes or shelter. Then only in the last 100ish years ha…

>I think people making money making music was an aberration in history, not "the way it should be". Absolute nonsense. We have evidence of professional musicians dating back to at least ancient Egypt. Plato complained in his writings about popular musicians holding unruly concerts. The invention of recorded music was a disaster for professional musicians, because it rendered most of them unemployed. People of the pas…

> Absolute nonsense.

I think the point was poorly put. I suspect most musical experiences throughout history were either not paid for or paid for voluntarily, not as a condition of access. I also suspect that there is a strong tradition throughout history of professional musicians but that the majority of musicians then (and now) are not professional but amateur (in the positive sense of that word).

> Plato complained in his writings about popular musicians holding unruly concerts.

Did he talk about how they were paid? otherwise I fail to see the relevance.

> The invention of recorded music was a disaster for professional musicians, because it rendered most of them unemployed.

That is an interesting claim, I am prepared to believe it, but I would like to see evidence supporting it. I would suspect that the money to be made by playing music created by other people was reduced. I would also suspect that this stimulated the creation of new songs and musical styles since new copyrightable work became a much more important means of earning income from music.

> People of the past had far more limited access to music, but they weren't stupid or undiscerning - they wanted to hear the best possible music and were willing to pay for it. Busking is probably as old as currency and remains a perfectly reasonable way of making a living.

The modern innovation on busking is platforms like patreon. I pay a monthly amount to a musician I have spent innumerable hours listening to while working. I suspect that payments for access to live performances and voluntary support of musicians you like is the future of musical income. Musical copyright stimulates the creation of some types of music and suppresses other types. It also primarily benefits larger, older, entrenched entities at the expense of suppressing newer, smaller and more innovative entities.

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#83

The author's basic premise is false and his article is riddled with basic factual errors. The vast majority of artists never made a significant proportion of their income from recorded music, due to the extremely shady accounting practices used by the industry to deprive artists of royalties. For detail on this, see Steve Albini's notorious essay The Problem With Music . https://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17 T…

> it has greatly increased the marketability of live music

Yet that might be a blip. Some of my friends who used to be passionate concertgoers, now say there’s no reason to pay for a concert, deal with getting to the venue, etc. when bands are uploading full-length concerts in fine video and audio to YouTube. Also, since musical tastes have fragmented enormously due to the wider supply, people are less likely to share favourite bands with friends, and so you might not have anyone to go to concerts with you. Concerts used to have an attraction as a social outing, but if you’d have to attend alone, what’s the point?

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#84
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For all of human history, we've been making music and art. And for almost all of that time, it was done for love of doing, not money. This seems wildly improbable to me? People didn't get paid for art until a few hundred years ago? Are you suggesting artisans weren't a thing? That all the art produced globally outside of the past few hundred years was done just for love of doing?

I've never heard of artisans getting wealthy before the 20th century.

Wedgewood pottery. Charles Dickens.

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder how some bands (like Dire Straits) seemed to figure this stuff out so early on while a decade later others struggled to do the same.

You think they figured it out early? Go listen to some Miles Davis recordings from the late 50s. Analog tape, two mics, and that was it. And it still sounds better than almost everything made since. Studio-quality analog has had better than CD-quality audio since the late 50s (lower noise, more headroom). With "modern" studio techniques we've adopted multitrack recording, close mic'ing of instruments, and what not. W…

> Studio-quality analog has had better than CD-quality audio since the late 50s (lower noise, more headroom).

I'm not sure what you mean by "studio-quality analog". If you literally mean playback from professional studio gear, what's the relevance? What consumers could buy was records.

And records are temperamental. For decent sound quality, you needed expensive turntables. Also a clean environment. If you used mass-consumer turntables, you'd destroy high frequencies. And if your records got dirty and/or scratched, there'd be noise.

Also, if you didn't have space to put the turntable and speakers in different rooms, you'd get low-frequency feedback at high volumes. Which could damage your speakers.

So I did have a decent turntable. And I only played new records once or twice. To record on reel-to-reel tape.

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#87

The author's basic premise is false and his article is riddled with basic factual errors. The vast majority of artists never made a significant proportion of their income from recorded music, due to the extremely shady accounting practices used by the industry to deprive artists of royalties. For detail on this, see Steve Albini's notorious essay The Problem With Music . https://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17 T…

I found it underwhelming that the author talks about "artists are no longer making a living making music" but provides no numbers. Do we have fewer professional musicians per capita? Do they make less on average/median/mode?

The closest he comes to evidence to support his thesis was the informal survey he gave his students about their perceptions about becoming a professional musician. Yet even here he fails to provide any evidence that this perception has changed relative to any of the other time periods he talks about. I don't think "professional musician" has ever been seen as a particularly valuable career path and has usually been a choice made based on love, rather than greed.

The closest he comes to an argument to explain his students' belief is not an argument about the money making potential of music given our current technology, but an argument about how there is too much competition.

Then he says this:

> And so what of the future? Since the death of Steve Jobs, Apple has not released any new platforms in the last five years. Are technological changes slowing down after 30 years of whirling change?

He ignores the two of the most important newer platforms for music: youtube and then later, spotify. Looking at the future without considering the effects of royalty paying platforms with complex recommendation engines completely misses the point about how high competition and new types of centralized discovery platforms will change the face of music. Overall, this is a poorly constructed article that reads like it is about 10 years out date, I actually scrolled up to check when it was published.

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#88

The author's basic premise is false and his article is riddled with basic factual errors. The vast majority of artists never made a significant proportion of their income from recorded music, due to the extremely shady accounting practices used by the industry to deprive artists of royalties. For detail on this, see Steve Albini's notorious essay The Problem With Music . https://www.negativland.com/news/?page_id=17 T…

Much of what you say is true, but then the live music scene is dominated by an oligopoly for ticket sales (Livenation & Ticketmaster) and for bookings (GoldenVoice). Commercial venues tend to sign contracts with these big players and that's killed off most local and regional booking agencies that used to set people up. It's better than it used to be in some respects, but also centralized and excessively driven by analytics.

The problem is that people took Steve Albini's legitimate criticisms of large end of the music industry and threw the baby out with the bathwater. It's far easier to launch a music act in some respects, but at the price of destroying a lot of economic infrastructure and favoring the lowest common denominator, eg things like 'Gucci gang'.

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#89

> However, with a sampling rate of 44,000 samples per second, there were overtones of sound now missing. Human hearing only goes up to 20 kHz when you are young, dropping to about 12 kHz at the age of 50. 44 kHz sampling gives a Nyquist frequency of 22 kHz, easily encompassing the full range of human hearing. Any overtones that are missing in the recording are overtones that didn't make it through the human ear in th…

I think people's experience with digital audio being "worse" than analogue audio, mostly comes down to the average audio reproduction equipment getting worse over the years. (Worse and cheaper. Like flights.)

Everyone used to have a pair of gigantic bookshelf speakers, where you didn't even need a subwoofer because the woofer covered the full low end of the range. They were also shitty, but in a particular analogue way that made them "warmer" and introduced a bit of hiss (which essentially was doing a cheap antialias of the source, according to our ears.)

When was the last time you listened to a good set of speakers, outside of a movie theatre? (Good headphones don't count—they can reproduce audio with high fidelity, but they can't produce enough sound to vibrate your body from the direction they're coming from—let alone enough to make the acoustics of the room you're listening in important.)

Re: A brief history of why artists are no longer making a living making music

#90

> However, with a sampling rate of 44,000 samples per second, there were overtones of sound now missing. Human hearing only goes up to 20 kHz when you are young, dropping to about 12 kHz at the age of 50. 44 kHz sampling gives a Nyquist frequency of 22 kHz, easily encompassing the full range of human hearing. Any overtones that are missing in the recording are overtones that didn't make it through the human ear in th…

> Any overtones that are missing in the recording are overtones that didn't make it through the human ear in the first place. Even if human beings cannot hear higher frequencies directly, they can hear the beats produced when higher frequencies sound at the same time as lower, directly audible ones. This has sometimes been exploited for musical purposes and I do wonder if this plays some role in some listeners’ feeli…

If the beats are audible, they're "real" and recordings will pick them up just fine. You don't need to record the original ultrasound to hear them. You still can't hear the inaudible frequencies, at the risk of stating a tautology.

You can make some small case for lower frequencies, because even if they are not audible they get to the point where other senses can pick them up too. A sufficiently loud 1Hz wave is simply something shaking. But you can't hear ultrasound.

Post reply on HN